Residual soap during HP rinse in SS bays

[copperglobe]

In my SS bays my HP soap give great sudsing action on the cars and customers love it. They then turn to HP rinse and it takes several minutes for the sudsing to quit coming out of gun. The sudsing does diminish a lot quite quickly but there is residual bubbles and such for quite some time; even during their whole experience on the HP rinse setting. It's not a mechanical failure in that I've changed all related solenoid valves, fittings and such on the pump stand.

Question: have any of you experienced this? what have you done to eliminate this small residual sudsing? Is it my HP soap brand (Kleen-Rite Super Concentrate)? Is my soap too concentrated? Too mush sudsing during the HP soap selection? I'm at a loss.

 

[2Biz]

Try running a bay on soap, then turn the pump off. Disconnect the soap feed to the solenoid to that bay and cap the ends. Then turn that bay back on to rinse and see if it takes the same amount of time to clear. This simple test should lead you to the culpret !

Btw, what solenoids are you using and are you double sure you have them installed correctly? Flow direction?

I put on plenty of soap and my rinse clears within a few seconds after reaching the gun.

 

[copperglobe]

I have done as you described with no change. Again, using Kleen-Rite Ultra Concentrate soap. Could it be that this soap just coats the hoses going out to the bay such that it takes a very long time to clear out? Anyone using KR soaps?

 

[copperglobe]

Is it possible that the hoses going to the bays are in need or replacement? Possible that they are coming apart inside, corroded inside and there is residual soap getting into those spaces in the hoses and it takes a long time to rinse out the nooks and crannies inside these old hoses?

 

[Stuart]

Did this issue just start or has it been around for sometime? I assume it didn't happen with the previous soap?
Did you just start using this soap?
Is your rinse hard or soft water?

 

[copperglobe]

The issue has been going on for some time now but recently I increased tip size at hydrominder to supply even more action at the gun for the customer. HP rinse is soft water coming directly from water softener (no rinse tank). Again, it's not the solenoid as I've run HP soap and then closed soap through solenoid and tested hp rinse with same results. Hoses wearing out, too rough inside hiding soap in cavities?

 

[Ghetto Wash]

Your hoses are old and holding soap in them. To confirm this, try going from high pressure soap and then switch to high pressure wax for a couple of seconds and then see how long it takes for the rinse to come out clear. Going to wax for a couple seconds before rinse will "kill" the leftover soap in your hose. Only fix I know is new hoses.

 

[copperglobe]

Ghetto Wash, you are exactly right. I have tried going to wax and then rinse and the soap is "killed" as you say- no soap evidence after that. It must be my hoses- they're around 7 years old. Ghetto Wash, you made my day. Thanks. I'm going to change out the hoses and go from there. Much appreciated.

 

[JMMUSTANG]

Disconnect your HP line in your pump room and connect a new hose from the pump with a gun in the equipment room, turn on soap(outside of eqp. room) run it for several minutes ( get it real soapy) then turn on rinse and time how long it takes for the changeover. If it changes over more quickly then it's probably the old line running to the bay.
I also had a similar problem with Orange Creme several years ago. I changed my hp hoses to the bays and switched over to Sonic Wash and that helped a lot in the change over time.

 

[Jeff_L]

I'd recommend replacing them with instrument tubing. It's stainless steel and you'll never have the problem again. I did this to one of my washes, so far so good (3yrs ago).

 

[JMMUSTANG]

Jeff what is the cost per bay?

 

[cantbreak80]

We used to sell “wax timers”. When rinse is selected, the timer would energize the bay’s wax solenoid for a few seconds. This cost the operator about $35 per bay and would extend the useful life of the bay supply hoses for several years.

Then, we started recommending and installing stainless steel tubing instead of hydraulic hose. The first cost was about 15% higher than hoses but SS tubing rarely ever needs to be replaced. It was one of the first “upgrades” I did when I purchased my place…about 23 years ago!

 

[copperglobe]

These are great comments. I just called around and 3/8" x .035 x 20' 316L weld A269 is around $1.47 per foot.

Question: when you run stainless you run it as far as possible then use hose on the end to the pump and the other end to the boom swivel?

 

[copperglobe]

What are "wax timers"? I assume they turn on the wax for a brief period when hp rinse is selected? I'm guessing they aren't available commercially but are simple timers adapted to do the function?

 

[Greg Pack]

I had the same issue with orange creme a few months ago. I tried a new line and it didn't help much. I switched to hard water for rinse and that helped significantly.

 

[JMMUSTANG]

These are great comments. I just called around and 3/8" x .035 x 20' 316L weld A269 is around $1.47 per foot.

Question: when you run stainless you run it as far as possible then use hose on the end to the pump and the other end to the boom swivel?

Where did you find it at that price?

 

[copperglobe]

Correction: when I went to order the stainless the price changed (their mistake they said). It is now $120 per 20 feet stick.

 

[JMMUSTANG]

Not sure this is the right stuff.
What do you guys think?

http://www.metalsdepot.com/catalog_cart_view.php?msg=

 

[cantbreak80]

I think the stuff I used was around $2.65/ft in 20’ lengths.
3/8” compression unions can be had for around $13.95/ea
3/8” tube x 3/8” MPT compression couplings are about $9.50/ea.
A sweet installation will have uni-strut and cushion clamps to keep everything neat.
Run the SS tubing to about 3’ from the overhead booms and couple the 3/8” hp hose down to the boom. If you’re running low pressure products to the trigger gun, the end of the SS tube is where you’ll want to install the lp manifolds and check valves.
The pump room ends can terminate at the pump station with “short” connection hoses from the pump’s regulator/unloader.

Wax timers are exactly how you described:
Rotary switch input to Rinse powers the bay’s wax solenoid for a set time (3-5 seconds). These guys are kinda spendy though …$50 to $90 each and hard to find! For a 4 bay car wash, one Programmable Logic Relay can be had for $125-$150. (Oh yeah, you need to buy the software and computer cable and learn how to program them.)

So, back to the SS tubing. This is the long term solution!

 

[MEP001]

I've seen this exact issue many times when the bay runs are the same steel-braided hose as the bay hose. The wax-and-back-to-rinse trick confirms it. I've never seen the same problem with thermoplastic hose.