Rinse water problem :/

[Martins]

Hey all! Have a weird situation and hoping you can help. I was getting a few complaints about the soap never shutting off (please read the rest before saying change Selonoid) from what i gathered the water kept looking like soap was coming out. So after some playing around i found it to be true in one bay more then the others. When you click over to the hi pressure rinse the water still looks soapy. So i did what we all would and pulled the soap solenoid and found it gunked up! Bingo. So i said F it ill just replace them all. So i did. Seemed to help for a while key word seemed. Now that its winter it is very noticeable in all bays that the rinse water never really gets clear. (Attached video of rinse only) as i use hot water im wondering is that a softener issue? Hard water issue, still a switch/solenoid issue? Thoughts?

Also its not soap coming out as far as i can tell. I have scented soap and when on rinse after the line clears i cannot smell the soap even in my hand. Maybe im tipped to much and its glazing the lines in soap?

 

[Twodose]

there is no video, on your video.
Did you replace the HP lines to the bays during your remodel?

 

[Martins]

View attachment trim.CBFE6816-CC56-4E52-8DA8-008E44A4C25B.MOV

 

[Martins]

there is no video, on your video.
Did you replace the HP lines to the bays during your remodel?

I think i got it posted that time. Damn .mov files. And not all of them but alot as i had a freeze up my first winter and it popped a few lines

 

[Twodose]

Had a problem at one wash years ago, it was like that on rinse, and after replacing all the hp lines from the ER to the Bays the problem stopped, only thing we could figure is that during the soap cycle it was pushing back between the braiding of the hose, and it would slowly come out during the rinse cycle, but it wasn't that heavy.
That looks like allot of soap, is it about the same as when on the wash cycle?, I see you have 2 rinse cycles there, does it happen on both, I know that some install solenoids backwards to act like a check valve, in fact my wash is like that, that is more for it back feeding if one fails. You said your using the same tank for soap and rinse? If it is common to all your bays, it would have to be the main hot water tank.
Unhook the soap solenoid to one bay and see what happens, the coil is magnetic, if you touch with a small screwdriver and pull off you can feel the resistance, make sure its not like that when its off.
Check this thread:

High Pressure Rinse and Spot Free Rinse Contaminated With Another Chemical

Hello everyone. I am new to the forum and just completed my first year in the car wash industry. At one of our car washes we have four self serv bays. In all four bays the rinse water is mixing with another product (smells like it could be pre soak). It appears the problem may be a check...

www.carwashforum.com

These guys will chime in, they must all be sleeping...lol.

 

[MEP001]

How are your pumps plumbed? How are your low pressure systems set up?

There's a slim possibility there is soap clinging to the inside of the high pressure lines, but it's much more likely there is soap or something that foams backing up into something else. I worked on one car wash for two solid days before I finally determined that a failed high pressure check valve on presoak was letting high pressure through the Dema Mix-Rite pump, which allowed presoak to back up all the way into the main plumbing and was coming out through the rinse solenoids.

 

[Randy]

That's a lot of foaming something. Get a glass jar with a lid and dip some water out of your rinse tank into the jar and shake to see if it foams. I'm thinking you have a check valve somewhere that's leaking by or not installed correctly. Are you using foaming wax, it could be that. These kinds of problems are a bitch to find sometimes.

 

[Martins]

How are your pumps plumbed? How are your low pressure systems set up?

There's a slim possibility there is soap clinging to the inside of the high pressure lines, but it's much more likely there is soap or something that foams backing up into something else. I worked on one car wash for two solid days before I finally determined that a failed high pressure check valve on presoak was letting high pressure through the Dema Mix-Rite pump, which allowed presoak to back up all the way into the main plumbing and was coming out through the rinse solenoids.

That's a lot of foaming something. Get a glass jar with a lid and dip some water out of your rinse tank into the jar and shake to see if it foams. I'm thinking you have a check valve somewhere that's leaking by or not installed correctly. Are you using foaming wax, it could be that. These kinds of problems are a bitch to find sometimes.

ok sorry for the late reply, ive attached my set up along with a picture of my rinse water tank as it was filling. As for sel set up, water comes from rinse tank to a + connection where wax and soap sel are set up for vac pull before the pump. Then out to the bay. No check valve other then from pump to bay for weep. Also as a stop gap to see i tipped down to what the soap recommends (as i tipped one up to give more soap better product) just to see if it does anything….

however… you may be on to something with the presoak valves… because they are old as well… maybe ill swap all them next and see how that goes. It is a separate system no where near the rinse take or hp line until it meets at the manifold above the bay…

ill do the glass jar check tomorrow cuz im curious now as well.

 

[Randy]

The picture of your rinse tank looks like it's full of soap or wax. It should be clear

 

[Martins]

The picture of your rinse tank looks like it's full of soap or wax. It should be clear

I agree.. thats my hot water as its coming into the tank. Theres no where to back flow. Its a gravity fed tank. Soo… im not 100% sure. Is it a softener issue? As i dont have one…

 

[MEP001]

It's definitely not a softener issue since you don't have one. The only way a softener issue would cause that would be if it's introducing salt into the water, which causes it to look sudsy.

I'd say do the shake test with water from your tank first. Also post some pictures of your presoak setup. What I mentioned about presoak backing up into the plumbing isn't going to happen if you have Hydrominders and a presoak pump.

 

[Martins]

It's definitely not a softener issue since you don't have one. The only way a softener issue would cause that would be if it's introducing salt into the water, which causes it to look sudsy.

I'd say do the shake test with water from your tank first. Also post some pictures of your presoak setup. What I mentioned about presoak backing up into the plumbing isn't going to happen if you have Hydrominders and a presoak pump.

Yea i was unsure as maybe its super hard water? It has a high reading. But yes my presoak is completely separate with solenoids and a separate pump but does come out the gun as a lp system. Ill do the jar test tomorrow! Ill video it haha.

 

[SoakZone]

Had the same issue early this week. What happened was when I was repairing one of the solenoids for a foam brush some of the product splashed into the brine tank of the water softener. Took two manual regenerations and it cleared up no problem.

 

[Martins]

So just a general update. I think I fixed the problem. I think it was glazing the lines. i tipped down and it seems to have solved the problem for the most part. which I find weird i only tipped down 1 but has helped significantly.

 

[Randy]

So just a general update. I think I fixed the problem. I think it was glazing the lines. i tipped down and it seems to have solved the problem for the most part. which I find weird i only tipped down 1 but has helped significantly.

I don’t understand what you mean by “I think it was glazing the lines” I don’t think that by changing the tips on your soap and wax is going to solve your problem.

 

[Martins]

I don’t understand what you mean by “I think it was glazing the lines” I don’t think that by changing the tips on your soap and wax is going to solve your problem.

i use concentrate. and i like giving alot of soap, however I think my mixture was too soap heavy, so it was leaving excess soap in the lines that was taking extra time to clear and foaming when on rinse cycle. all I know is I tipped down and the problem went away. as I'm sure i have build up in the lines that are there, it could have been catching in pockets collecting soap and then when clearing releasing it. either way for now its fixed haha

 

[Randy]

39 years in the car wash business and that's a new one on me. But I guess whatever works.

 

[MEP001]

I've seen it twice. Both times, switching to wax briefly would knock the soap out of the lines, then it would rinse clear. IIRC your wax is low pressure so that wouldn't work for you. The solution in both cases was running new high pressure lines. Also in both cases the equipment was built and installed by the same guy who uses GoodYear Neptune 3000 hose.

 

[cantbreak80]

Way back when…we would install “Soap Killers” on “no rinse” service calls.

Basically, an off-delay timer triggered by the Rinse position on the rotary switch. It would turn on the wax solenoid for a few seconds every time Rinse was selected.

Operators were told that this solution was a temporary fix and the bay supply hoses would eventually need replacement.

We all hated those hose replacement jobs.

 

[MEP001]

We all hated those hose replacement jobs.

The guy I mentioned above ran all the lines inside solid PVC pipe the entire run, so you can imagine how bad a job that was.