RO Troubleshooting

[Buzzie8]

I want to troubleshoot my Jim Coleman Supersaver R.O. system. I have read many forum posts but still have some questions and thought it might be better to start a new post.

Here are some symptoms.
1. I have spotting on any spot free water left on the vehicle that blower does not take off and it is worse than ever.
2. I have a metal to metal type sound now when the RO pump kicks on.
3. The last time I checked (a couple months ago) my TDS were around 5 PPM at the bays and in the storage. This baffles me.
4. I changed the prefilter earlier this year, but the membranes and the charcoal have never been changed in seven years.

I have little to no knowledge on the various parts of the RO system (however I am know pretty much everything else on my parts and maintain my wash with little help from my distributor)

Now, here are my questions.

1. I know that I need to check the chlorine levels from the water that enters the system from my softener. Where do I take the test water from?
2. How do I change out the charcoal in the system?
3. How do I change the RO membranes?
4. How do I adjust pressures on the system?
5. Why, if I am getting low PPM readings, does spotting seem to be worse than ever. I know some of this is from drips off my gantry but cannot figure out why when I take a mirror test that the spotting doesn't seem to be any better than tap water?
6. Metal on metal pump start up sound, anyone ever have that?

I know this is a lot, but any help would be greatly appreciated, especially from a Jim Coleman (Sta Rite) user.

 

[Rudy]

I'm not a Jim Coleman user, but the following should apply to most systems....

1. The chlorine is checked anywhere AFTER the charcoal filter....after all, the charcoal is what removes the chlorine. We check ours on a monthly checklist. Chlorine will eat through your membranes which is an expensive mistake.
2. Our charcoal is in a "water softener" type canister. Every other year or so, we remove the head, turn the unit upside down and dump the charcoal out. There's also some gravel in the bottom to provide an area for the distributor tube to "suck" the treated water. After the tank is rinsed clean, gravel is replaced followed by the appropriate amount of charcoal.
3. I don't know about your set up, but my membrane canister caps are retained with a huge snap ring. However you need to, remove the end cap....pull out the old membrane and insert new ones. Replace the end caps, replumb and you are done.
4. Your manufacturer will have info on how to set your unit. We check our settings DAILY, since it wastes water and ruins equipment to not have it set properly. It only takes a little variance in water temperature to throw the settings way, way off. If you haven't been doing this....you've been wasting $$$.
5. Don't know. Are you sure your PPM readings are correct? It sounds like your membranes are shot, and that you are essentially spraying soft water in your spot free cycle.
6. Bad pump. Is it a procon? When they go bad, the flow drops, and they make a racket. They can be rebuilt....preferably from an authorized distributor.

Rudy

 

[Buzzie8]

Rudy,
Thanks for the response. I actually ordered a second TDS meter from KR because I thought I was getting bad readings and they still were the same. My water before being treated is about 125PPM and between 5-10PPM after treatment. This is what has me scratching my head. If I am getting a good PPM reading from the treated water can anything be wrong with the system? Also, where do you buy the charcoal and membranes from. I know the membranes will need to be spec'd out for my system but the charcoal is probably a commodity local supply store item I'm assuming. I think I am going to go through and replace all these items just to eliminate them as a problem.
Buzzie

 

[2Biz]

Something to consider....
They make calibrating solution's to help keep your TDS meter calibrated. When I bought my TDS meter, I ordered a solution that was 1000ppm. Probably not the right solution since we are trying to obtain 0-40 tds. Any way, when I calibrate my meter, I get 1000 or very close, and when I check my RO water it reads 0. My system is a Dultmeier. The engineer from Dultmeier says anything below 40tds is acceptable. The calibratng solution might have saved you from thinking your meter was reading incorrectly.

Just something I noted that Rudy didn't cover. I was told to change the 5 micron pre-filter monthly. Its only a few bucks. But given my volumn, I'm going to stretch it to bi-monthly. Still I wouldn't think this is an issue for you since you are still around 5-10 tds?

Another thing to note, when you change the membrane, it only goes in one way. Mine has tapered seals on one end and should be inserted so the tapered seal doesn't fold over. Its pretty explanitory if you look at it. If you put it in the wrong way and the seal folds over, it won't seal and you won't get enough pressure to force water thru the membrane. Water will just bypass between the filter and housing.

Hope this helps with a few of your issues.

I've had my SFR installed for a few months now and customers love it. no complaints.

 

[Rudy]

I've had outstanding service from Wood Brother Water (do a google search). I've purchased everything from membranes to carbon to water softener parts from them and couldn't be happier.....

 

[Washmee]

Are you checking the R/O quality at the nozzle? Is the car completely soap free when you apply the R/O? Did you switch to a different drying agent and have you checked how much drying agent you are applying? Too much drying agent will over power the R/O water.

 

[ONEcard]

follow WashMee 's post and check the water quality at the source and at the gun. Years ago we ran into an issue where the wax we were using (a polymer wax) would adhere to the walls of the Hp hose and when the SFR would kick on the RO water would strip the residual off the walls and deposit it with SFR water.

Zack

 

[MEP001]

Check the RO water from the tank. You could have a bad check valve allowing soap back into it and contaminating it.

Check for chlorine in the RO reject. The membranes filter and concentrate it, and if there's a small amount getting by the charcoal filter it will show more easily in the reject.

 

[Greg Pack]

On the coleman system you can there is a little valve about knee height right by the pressure gauge. You can check hardness and chlorine there.

Is this a first generation wizard? If so, I have had issue in the past with leaks on the gantry from tire cleaner and presoak where the foam generators are mounted. They would leak and drip out during the drying process and spot/smear the vehicle. Coleman fixed that in the 2.0s by changing to stainless fittings.

 

[Buzzie8]

I have checked TDS in the bays and get what I think are good readings. I am assuming I should not be getting chlorine in my reject or in the treated correct? Also, I have a WW 1.0 and yes, I have had leaks in the gantry before that caused smearing (I do not have any leaks that I know of now but will double check today.) I guess I am wondering if 7 years is too long for membranes in the RO or if they could still be OK and I have another problem.

 

[2Biz]

Your correct. You shouldn't see any chlorine in your reject or in your RO holding tank. You want to measure for chlorine after your carbon tank. Usually there is a valve just after your Pre-Filter to take a sample. It should give you a "0" reading for chlorine.

Testing for a failed membrane should be quite easy. Basically there are two indications its failing that I know of. If your TDS rises above 40ppm or the flow of SF water to your tank decreases. I have a small 600-900 gallon per day unit for a 4 bay SS. I get about .6 gallons per minute going into the holding tank and 1.2 gallons per minute going to reject. Both of these readings will tell you if you have a failing membrane....

 

[Washmee]

I have checked TDS in the bays and get what I think are good readings. I am assuming I should not be getting chlorine in my reject or in the treated correct? Also, I have a WW 1.0 and yes, I have had leaks in the gantry before that caused smearing (I do not have any leaks that I know of now but will double check today.) I guess I am wondering if 7 years is too long for membranes in the RO or if they could still be OK and I have another problem.

If you are getting readings in the bay that are good, the problem is not the R/O water. What is the last pass before the spot free pass? I still think you are leaving something on the surface of the vehicle that is over powering the spot free.

 

[Jeff_L]

Take your measurements from the downstream side of the spot free tank and again from the nozzles of your bay and compare the two. If they are different, then your issue lies between those two points. If they are the same, then run a wash and grab a sample of your spot free in the bay a few seconds after it starts. If different, then your issue still lies between those two points.

As MEP pointed out, you may have a stuck check valve or a solenoid for your other water open during your spot free cycle.

 

[Rudy]

I got nine years out of my first set of membranes. Per my earlier post, I attribute that to being proactive in maintenance and operating correctly.

 

[chaz]

Hi all, as I can't seem to find the button to start a new thread, I will tag onto this older one......

My water softness is great. My TDS is great at the RO unit, and great going into the storage tank. BUT, the quality in the tank is lousy. I have drained the storage tank twice and power washed the inside of the tank. I am guessing there is some type of contamination that I need thoughts on how to purify the tank. I have recently changed by pre filter and RO membranes and new carbon and gravel as well.

Thoughts????

 

[I.B. Washincars]

You've got a failed check valve somewhere.

 

[chaz]

I will look for a check valve. But I have the bad water in the tank as is its filling, while getting a great read of the water coming into the tank even before any RO is called for.

 

[I.B. Washincars]

I have a Ginsan Water Lovers unit at one of my washes that has a CV on the RO unit that has failed on more that one occasion and polluted the tank. I'm not sure what the valve is for and am not at the wash so that I can look at it and figure it out.

 

[MEP001]

I will look for a check valve. But I have the bad water in the tank as is its filling, while getting a great read of the water coming into the tank even before any RO is called for.

If the water from the RO system is testing good but the water in the tank is not, there's a failed check valve somewhere in your equipment. Are you all self-serve bays or is there an automatic unit? Does the auto run spot-free through the same tips as high-pressure? A failed check valve there would let untreated water back into your tank.

 

[chaz]

I have all mark vii equipment. 4 s/s and one Gt700. I am having the bad water in the tank as quick as the tank fills, even before any equipment calls for spot free. But I guess the tank could be filling with good and bad water at same time. I will follow the lines. Thanks.