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Sales Tax from a vendor

jholmes

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I recently noticed that my vendor of car wash chemicals is charging me tax on some products. They state that i need to pay tax on those items, even though i have a resale certificate. They are charging me it on Tire shine, and Tripple foam. Though they are not on wax. I am located in Florida within the United States. My question is, shouldn't i be exempt from paying them tax on something that my end customer will pay on as well?

Thank you in advance
 
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OurTown

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I recently noticed that my vendor of car wash chemicals is charging me tax on some products. They state that i need to pay tax on those items, even though i have a resale certificate. They are charging me it on Tire shine, and Tripple foam. Though they are not on wax. I am located in Florida within the United States. My question is, shouldn't i be exempt from paying them tax on something that my end customer will pay on as well?

Thank you in advance


Every state may be different so talk with your CPA about it. In Ohio I know several wash owners that think they don't have to pay sales tax but our CPA recommends paying it so we do.
 

MC3033

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Sales tax only needs to be paid once. Either you need to pay sales tax when you purchase or your customer needs to pay tax when they purchase from you. I cannot think of a reason they would only tax certain products?

That’s all assuming Florida even taxes services?
 

DavidM

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It varies from state to state. Go with your accountant or assume that your vendor has checked this out and know what they are doing.

PA classifies the products differently depending on whether or not they stay on the vehicle when it leaves. So waxes and Tire shine are not taxed but presoaks, HP soaps, polishes are taxed. They consider us the end user of the cleaning detergents, not our customers. This makes limited sense in a full service wash but even less sense in a self service car wash.

David
 

mjwalsh

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DavidM & others,

Not that I want to overplug KR but so far they have done a good job of exempting properly & taxing the others that need to be taxed based on our state. I did have to give them our nd sales tax number as soon as they were notified of their new responsibility. I am not sure how the states tax dept's are interacting with the various vendors since the Streamlined Tax went through.

Having gone through a "not so pleasant audit" mostly relating to "use tax" I appreciate the slightly less paperwork etc from the Streamlined agreed to by most USA states. Either way the states want to tax on the gross within the vend items ... not the net cost of the vend items. I feel for the operators who are stuck in states that tax ALL GROSS ALL SERVICES. On the other hand if they made no effort to stop it within their state ... not as much sympathy seems in order.
 

Jsshac

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Ct charges sales tax when you buy the soap and then the car wash has to pay sales tax again it breaks down to a gross recipt tax
 

Randy

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When KR first started charging sales/use tax we sent them a Washington state resell certificate. We pay the sales/use tax every quarter to the state of Washington. We pay sales/use tax on soap, pumps, hoses, parts etc. We don’t pay sales/use tax on wax and vending items. The state said that wax isn’t taxed because it leaves on the car, we pay sales tax at a rate of 10.2% on all car wash sales, vending, bay time and vacuum time.
 

Dan kamsickas

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From a vendors point of view, sales tax is a moving target and a nightmare. Who gets charged, how much, and for what products is different from State to State.
 

mjwalsh

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From a vendors point of view, sales tax is a moving target and a nightmare. Who gets charged, how much, and for what products is different from State to State.
Dan & others,

Quote from SSUTA website's FAQ: How does the SSUTA simplify sales tax administration?

Sales tax administration is improved through tax law simplification, more efficient administrative procedures, and emerging technologies. Sales tax simplification results from: uniform tax definitions; uniform and simpler exemption administration; rate simplification; state-level administration of all sales taxes, uniform sourcing (where the sale is taxable); and state funding of the administrative costs.


Not sure if the above is another "what they don't tell you 'omission' problem. I was told that the vendors would have it more simple because the SSUTA provided the free software to deal with maze of zip code tax variations. That was based on when I sat in on several ND Legis Tax Studies that seemed to be focused mainly on SSUTA. The chairman of the state legis study whose occupation was a vendor himself for power plants etc. seemed to be OBSESSED in favor of the SSUTA.

From my limited perspective ... it would help prevent a possible potential "over zealous" use tax auditor from coming back with penalties & interest as far back as 7 years to an unsuspecting naive individual self service car wash owner who bought car wash "in facility use" items that were not vended. The vended of course would then be on the gross of the vended items. I am not sure if most owners kept the vend gross separate from their in bay usage (defined as service) for their own in house tracking of their towels, armorall packets, air fresheners & other car wash items vended by a vending machine or over the counter.

BTW ... it seems like when the vendor gets the exemption certificate from the operator ... it tends to be pretty obvious which items they sell are to be vended. Correct me if I am wrong there.

No offense ... but IMHO I see both the hardware & the software side of forcing cashless on customers to be much more so in the "vaporware....moving target" category.
 
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I recently noticed that my vendor of car wash chemicals is charging me tax on some products. They state that i need to pay tax on those items, even though i have a resale certificate. They are charging me it on Tire shine, and Tripple foam. Though they are not on wax. I am located in Florida within the United States. My question is, shouldn't i be exempt from paying them tax on something that my end customer will pay on as well?

Thank you in advance
Florida sales tax is a royal pain in the *ss for car washes and it can suck in the vendors into the mayhem. This vendor likely got some bad information from their accountant or the Florida Department of Revenue (DOR). I'm a CPA/Attorney that does almost nothing but defend businesses for sales tax. The short answer is a car wash giving a resale certificate for all products purchased can end up getting in trouble when audited if they don't track the use tax liability on which of those products are not part of a taxable resale to customers. But the short answer is confusing. The longer answer starts with what the Florida based car wash should be charging tax on. If anything stays on the vehicle, then the whole car wash charge is subject to sales tax. So wax, tire shine (if the chemical stays on the tire), leather/dash conditioner, etc all stay on the vehicle. So when any of these products are put on the customers vehicle, then 100% of the price charged to the customer is subject to sales tax. You can NOT separately line items these charges and avoid tax on the whole wash. If the customer gets a basic wash or any wash that doesn't have products stay on the vehicle (water does not count), then the car wash doesn't have to charge sales tax. With these rules in mind, this controls what the car was needs to be paying sales tax on when purchasing inventory. Anything that is going to be resold as taxable to the customer can be purchased with a resale certificate, thereby avoiding paying sales tax. The theory behind the law is only the final consumer should pay sales tax. So the wax, tire shine, leather/dash conditioner can all be purchased tax free, then the customer pays sales tax when you charge tax on the whole wash. The tax only applies once, to the final customer. This is the easy part. The soap and products that go on the car but don't stay on the car when the customer drives away is a little more complicated, which is the confusing area the vendor here is has stepped into. When soap is used in a wash with products that stay on the car (e.g. wax), then the whole wash charge is taxed and the car wash technically does not owe sales or use tax on that soap. However, soap used during a wash that is not taxable (e.g. basic wash), will be subject to tax to the car wash because the car was used the soap when performing a non-taxable service. In other words, the car wash itself is the final consumer and owes the tax. That means that some of the soap purchased can be purchased tax free and some the vendor should be paying tax on. Very confusing! Most car washes pay sales tax to the vendor on the products that don't stay on the vehicle, like basic soap, which is the easy method. But the car wash ends up paying sales tax on some products that are resold with sales tax to the customer, in other words the car wash is over paying sales tax. It is an accounting problem to try to track products that are something resold taxable and sometimes sold without tax. Some big car washes have systems that can track this and they don't over pay their tax. Is this starting to make sense? Now, back to the vendor. The vendor technically is off the hook for any tax if the car wash gives them a resale certificate, but many vendors are terrified of the FL DOR. So some refuse to tax resale certificates for items like soap that might not be resold as taxable by the vendor, wrongly thinking that it is not appropriate to accept the resale certificate. Unfortunately, the car wash cannot force the vendor to accept the resale certificate. However, the car wash can take a credit for sales tax paid on inventory that was re-sold as taxable to the customer, if they have a good accounting system to track it. Like I said... this is the long answer, but I hope I answered your question. I don't mind sharing a call with the vendor, if that might help. If you have any more questions about Florida sales tax, then fill free to reach out. As you can see from this answer, I don't mind sharing knowledge and give free initial consultations. You can contact me at 813-775-2131 or JamesSutton@FloridaSalesTax.com.
 

mjwalsh

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James Sutton,

Thanks for the very valuable post for all of us IMHO
... not just for Floridians.

Like an economic disease ... the gross receipt theft can spread all across the country ... especially when the news media puts their bias in favor of more taxes ... in this case sales tax. It seems like some specific billionaires' who made their money of & potentially tons more money off of their short term "vaporware hdwe & software" tend to be all for the complications of each localized difference in amt owed & like you mention the totally asinine "left on car unnecessary complication".

Just a couple of observations. I am thankful that myself, farmers, & some fellow small businesses tapped into enough of our general population every time when the "brain dead city slickers" here (especially Fargo Area) in our state tried to make the sales tax their panacea "easy pickings tax".

On this forum & other mob mentality places ... intentionally &/or unintentionally ...the ones who do everything to destroy the ability to use high denomination coins also very much aiding & abetting another gross (not net) receipt takers of our income They seem think that the dependency of intricate merchant fee based software will also solve the .... "based on whatever spin at the time 'minor intricacies'" of sales tax. Meanwhile in Hong Kong courageous protestors are trying to deal with the "cashless" that got out of hand in their area as a life & death-loss of liberty selective enforcement reality.
 
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James Sutton,

Thanks for the very valuable post for all of us IMHO
... not just for Floridians.

Like an economic disease ... the gross receipt theft can spread all across the country ... especially when the news media puts their bias in favor of more taxes ... in this case sales tax. It seems like some specific billionaires' who made their money of & potentially tons more money off of their short term "vaporware hdwe & software" tend to be all for the complications of each localized difference in amt owed & like you mention the totally asinine "left on car unnecessary complication".

Just a couple of observations. I am thankful that myself, farmers, & some fellow small businesses tapped into enough of our general population every time when the "brain dead city slickers" here (especially Fargo Area) in our state tried to make the sales tax their panacea "easy pickings tax".

On this forum & other mob mentality places ... intentionally &/or unintentionally ...the ones who do everything to destroy the ability to use high denomination coins also very much aiding & abetting another gross (not net) receipt takers of our income They seem think that the dependency of intricate merchant fee based software will also solve the .... "based on whatever spin at the time 'minor intricacies'" of sales tax. Meanwhile in Hong Kong courageous protestors are trying to deal with the "cashless" that got out of hand in their area as a life & death-loss of liberty selective enforcement reality.
MJ - Perhaps the good news is that for the car wash industry, the Wayfair Decision should make things easier, not harder. Car washes likely never sell across state lines, so no economic nexus issues there. More and more vendors will charge your state's sales tax so you don't have to keep up with use tax on everything. So it really isn't a tax increase, for the most part. It just put the sales and use tax compliance burden on the out of state vendor. Now... the vendor industry selling across state lines has a completely new nightmare to deal with sales tax laws and rates in over 10,000 state and local jurisdictions.
 
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