Security Camera's

[2Biz]

As most of you know, my wife and I recently purchased a 4 Bay SS. In this short time, we have already been “strung” to the tune of $300-$500 before we realized what was going on. We have a Hamilton XE Validator rev 3.02 for reference. The Coin Counter does not work on the Hopper, which didn’t help with the situation. (In process of upgrading!)

Our CW has security cameras and DVR, but the PO installed the cameras so they were hidden. We were able to capture the guy on video as he emptied our machine on more than one occasion. (The last time was Monday morning at 9:30 broad daylight, Unbelievable!!!) Anyway, the way the cameras are positioned, they only got a profile shot of the thug in front of the changer. No straight away shot. If I would have had a camera facing straight away, we could have saw what he was driving and maybe a license plate number. As it is or will probably be, I doubt if the Police can use the video to catch/prosecute the guy. We’ll see.

So, I would like your opinions. What is your preference, camera’s mounted out in the open or hidden? I’m leaning towards mounting them out in the open and put signs up. My thoughts are, I would rather the thiefs know the camera’s were there to deter the stealing/vandalism rather than them think theres no way for them to get caught. Maybe if they could see that we have surveillance, they would be apt to move on and leave our place alone.

What are the Pro’s and Con’s?

P.S. I’m currently trying to work with the video so it can be viewed online. But the IMM4 Codec required for viewing the .AVI file is giving me fits! I haven’t found any software out there yet that will convert it to something more user friendly.

 

[diycarwash]

Update you bill acceptor to Mars. Etowah Valley have the update kit. It is very easy to install and should stop the stringing. Cameras won't stop it. You can also switch your car wash to tokens. I have been on them for 4 years and don't have these problems anymore.

 

[Louise]

Well, I have been in the business for almost 6 years now and have probably had more break-ins than anyone here on the Forum. I'll give you my advice. Put up as many real cameras as you can and post signs up that you have them. Mention the fact that you have 24 hour surveillance to as many customers as you can talk to. Make sure they know that you can watch the wash from any computer anywhere and you always monitor from home. I do this periodically through-out the night. The good customers will like it and the naughty ones will choose another wash to hit.

For almost 2 years now I have not been hit. Two reasons - I installed vibration sensors in all vulnerable equipment. If someone takes a hammer or crowbar to a piece of equipment, then the alarm sounds with the first hit and scares them off. Trust me, that is what you want to do - get them the hell off your property as soon as you can. Don't know about the police force in your area, but with all the great surveillance I have given my force (I have 13 cameras and usually get some good shots), we have only caught a handful of criminals. Then, once you catch them, yes, they may spend some time in jail, but you never get restitution.

So, the last attempted break-in resulted in the arrest of two guys. Thankfully, in a small town, that kind of stuff hits the papers. So the second thing I did was I clipped the article and had it laminated. It is on my community board at the wash. Amazing the number of people roaming thru the wash at 2 am will stop to read it and then move on.

Add cameras and publicize the fact that you have them. Maybe the stringers and the burglars will go elsewhere.

Good luck.

 

[Jeff_L]

Depends on what you're wanting to do with the cameras. Are you going to try to catch every burglar who comes by? Are you in the detective business and have the time to track down that unknown face in the video? You own a car wash, you're in the business of washing cars. Therefore, my main focus with my cameras is so I can check the condition of the washes to see what needs to be done, what might be broke, busy or not, etc.. My second priority with the cameras is to catch burglars/vandals, which I'm not very good at unless they have the name of the business on their vehicle, unique car, etc.. If I see someone stuff a dozen dead catfish in the trash, and he drives a blue car, I have no clue who that person really is and probably won't ever see them again.

Therefore, in my opinion, you want the cameras to be deterrents to would be thieves/vandals. Your newbie criminals won't know where to look for hidden cameras, thus, I wouldn't go through any efforts to hide them. I'd also put up signs about the cameras. I did this a couple years ago and haven't had any issues out of the ordinary.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

I thought Hamilton had taken care of the stringing issue. Why in the H*** are they so far behind the 8 ball on this?

 

[2Biz]

The how to, removed requested by 2Biz

I will try again tonight to get the video up to YouTube. I have to get it converted first, YouTube didn’t like the .AVI and the required IMM4 Codec.

Thanks so far for all the suggestions. And yes we have a Mars coming and we’re also updating the Controller and Hopper. We’ve discussed changing over to tokens, but this is a ways down the “List to Do”.

 

[Jeff_L]

I recommend not posting to YouTube and editing the "how to" in your post. We don't want people learning how to string our gear. Thanks.

 

[mjc3333]

As most of you know, my wife and I recently purchased a 4 Bay SS. In this short time, we have already been “strung” to the tune of $300-$500 before we realized what was going on. We have a Hamilton XE Validator rev 3.02 for reference. The Coin Counter does not work on the Hopper, which didn’t help with the situation. (In process of upgrading!)

Our CW has security cameras and DVR, but the PO installed the cameras so they were hidden. We were able to capture the guy on video as he emptied our machine on more than one occasion. (The last time was Monday morning at 9:30 broad daylight, Unbelievable!!!) Anyway, the way the cameras are positioned, they only got a profile shot of the thug in front of the changer. No straight away shot. If I would have had a camera facing straight away, we could have saw what he was driving and maybe a license plate number. As it is or will probably be, I doubt if the Police can use the video to catch/prosecute the guy. We’ll see.

So, I would like your opinions. What is your preference, camera’s mounted out in the open or hidden? I’m leaning towards mounting them out in the open and put signs up. My thoughts are, I would rather the thiefs know the camera’s were there to deter the stealing/vandalism rather than them think theres no way for them to get caught. Maybe if they could see that we have surveillance, they would be apt to move on and leave our place alone.

What are the Pro’s and Con’s?

P.S. I’m currently trying to work with the video so it can be viewed online. But the IMM4 Codec required for viewing the .AVI file is giving me fits! I haven’t found any software out there yet that will convert it to something more user friendly.

I have been in the car wash business for 22 years. I have used ever model validator Hamilton manufactured over those years. The HV I, HV II, HV 7, HVX, STA, and the XE. EVERYONE was strung over and over. Take out ALL Hamilton validators, and get the Mars conversion kit from Etowah Valley, or Kleen-Rite immediately!!!

I switched to Mars 7 years ago and have not lost any money since the switch period!! Do NOT fool around with this. The thieves will be back as you can already see. I pleaded with Hamilton to no avail to try and fix this problem.

I also have cameras in place 16 in all at each wash. Cameras will not stop anyone from doing anything. They definitely will not stop the stringing. The only time they were useful to me was during an attempted break-in. I caught them, they paid restitution...... trust me, I got lucky.

Call Jim Gosnell at Etowah Valley Equipment or Keith at Kleen-Rite today.

Don't wait like I did for over 15 years before I made the switch.

Oh, and one more thing, do NOT post anything on the web showing how this happened, the thieves are out there looking at this stuff everyday. Trust me, they are one step ahead of you and I, don't give them more fuel on an already bad situation.

Mike

 

[washnvac]

Agreeing with diy, the best way to keep from being strung is to use high security tokens. I have used tokens since day one (18 years ago). At first it was a combination of quarter/tokens, now I use $1 high seciruty tokens. This will be way cheaper than changing all your validators, and they will pay for theirselves in short order.

I use what is considered the easiest to string (CoinCo's), and have never been strung. You can add cameras, change validators, add signs--but the best way to keep a crook away is to remove the item for which they are coming to get. Pretty simple in my eyes.

 

[MEP001]

I thought Hamilton had taken care of the stringing issue. Why in the H*** are they so far behind the 8 ball on this?

They "took care of it" years ago. Their "solution" was to offer all their changers and auto cashiers with factory-installed Mars validators.

 

[2Biz]

I recommend not posting to YouTube and editing the "how to" in your post. We don't want people learning how to string our gear. Thanks.

You guys are absolutely right. I just wanted to get the video up so you guys could see how he did it...It shouldn't be that easy. Also, I wasn't able to edit my "How to" post...I guess you can't edit after so much time has gone by....Maybe an admin can fix it for me.

If anybody wants to see the vid...I was finally able to convert it to an .mp4...I have it on a secure server. PM me and I'll give you the link...


BTW..My Mars AE 2631 came today. Should be back in business tomorrow...

 

[pitzerwm]

Quit worrying about the crooks learning from us. They have their own web sites and teach each other in prison. We are the only ones that don't know how its done. Years ago, I got strung, and I had no idea how it was being done and no one would tell me, even Hamilton (1974-75). When I started the forum, I finally found out. I actually thought that a "string" was involved.

Go to YouTube right now and start looking, you can find out all kinds of ways to steal and cheat etc. Actually, now there shouldn't be any trick to stringing the old stuff. I hadn't heard about just holding on to it. I told brad once, that when they make a new model, the first sale is to the crooks. They had a guy once on TV that had got caught ripping off slots in Vegas, he said that he bought all of the new machines and in his garage, spent weeks/months figuring out their weak spots.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Put up some still shots of the perps you caught on video on your premises sayinff "Wanted... for questioning in connection with..."

I think potential persp will see it and figure they don't want to be the next ones whose photos are posted.

 

[Jim H.]

I have a Mars kit in an ACW 4 and had to disable the refund button to get my audits to balance. I think the Mars can be strung. If you are concerned with upsetting customers by changing to tokens, you may be able to offer a bonus token with your bill changer.

 

[mjc3333]

I offer both tokens and coins in my change machines.

The token machine gives a discount at $5 $10 and $20.

The ratio is about 9 to 1 coins (cash) over tokens. If you ask most customers would they rather tokens or coins, they take coins in my market.

Most customers that buy the tokens are my regulars. They would probably spend the same amount in cash if the discount for tokens was not offered. The "not so" regular customer say only washes in the winter once a month 3 or 4 times a year, definitely does not want the tokens even at a $1 a pop. Most of this in my opinion is market driven, basically where you are located.

As far as the video of the stringing, I still feel it is wrong to post something like that on an open web platform. The only people who will be able to get anything out of it are in fact the criminals themselves. Even if you as an owner see the video, what are you going to do about it, call Hamilton.......? I have talked to many different owners about this problem with the answer being different for each owner to tackle. My situation may be different from your situation. My solution may also be different.

About the only way I can see not being robbed would be to have credit card acceptance only at ever single machine 24 hours a day. Yes someone can use a stolen card, but they can't steal actual money. If you don't accept cash on site for any reason, you cannot lose what you don't have. I think I read an article about a wash in Las Vegas about two or three years ago that did this; credit card only no cash....

 

[wisheewashee]

Louise....bless your heart. I remember when that side of town was the happening place when Mariner Mall was around! I really feel for what you have to go through.

I believe cameras are deterrants. They do help catch people who damage your place as well. As long as you can get a license plate which is the real tough part. But when you do all you have to do is call the sheriff department and they will run it for you. (At least they do for me). I have nailed a few folks. Got no restitution but I can assure you that word gets around that your business will fight back.

 

[MEP001]

For what it's worth, I spent some time searching YouTube for anything on cheating bill changers and found nothing. Maybe they don't even allow such videos.

 

[2Biz]

I don't know about going to tokens. My wife and I have discussed it but don't know how well it work for our location. For now we're hoping that going to a New Mars Validator will solve the problem. And you know, our wash is right accross the street from the sherrifs office! You'd think that would be a deterrant?!?!?!?

For those of you that have their video cameras mounted out in the open, do you have them mounted in the "Glass Domes" like what you see in department stores? I'm wondering if I put the cameras in each bay what the water mist will do to the lens and how often the cameras will need to be cleaned. Right now my cameras are concealed in the attic and pointing down thru about a 1" hole in the ceiling. It limits the amount of camera view. I'm all for putting them in plain view and putting signs up. Just need to get some better weather to get some of these projects done.

 

[washnvac]

I use the big 14 inch camera housings for the exterior of all my washes. I want people to see them, and in a big way. I prefer them as a deterent, not concealed so I may have to review hours of video.

For the self-serve bays, I use the little bullets up in the corner. I put rain-x on the glass/lens every so often. It works well. Occassioanlly they will fog up for a few minutes, but return clear after.

In my auto bays I use a 14 inch housing with a wiper. Wiper comes on when auto is in use only.

 

[pitzerwm]

I like the domes, so that they aren't sure which way they are pointing. It also protects the lens from mist/dirt, easier to wipe off from time to time. I also like hidden ones, like a pinhole in the changers/ACW/vendors.

2Biz, quit worrying about going to tokens. All of us that have gone to them, have not regretted it. You can have 2% a week walk off, vandalism is way down, which in money and frustration pays for the few that won't use them. I suggest that you also accept cash. If they put a $5/$10 give them extra tokens. Explain to anyone that bitches, that you too wish that you didn't have to go that way, but the vandalism forced you to do it. Since they the customer have to pay for it, this will keep prices down longer.