Selecting a pump and controls

[OurTown]

We need to find a pump solution for our spot free arch and glass building window washing system. When we bought our new machine we did not buy a pump setup because we have an underground 1,500 gallon RO water storage tank and needed a custom solution. Autec usually uses a gravity fed pump from an above ground RO storage tank and I think it is about 15 GPM but unsure of the pressure. They use a pump like this but I don't think it will lift on the suction side:

https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-44...phase-208-240-480-vac-3-4-in-fnpt-15-gpm.aspx


The install guys seemed to think that 40 psi should be fine. We have several options to control the pump. One way is to have the solenoid valve output from the machine PLC go to a contactor and start the pump and that is the normal way Autec does it. The other way is to make it a constant pressure system like a well water supply system with a pressure cutoff switch and bladder tank. The pump should be made of materials that will hold up to RO water. It needs to be a reliable setup and not take up a bunch of space. What direction should we be going?

 

[OurTown]

Thoughts on this?

https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-37...less-steel-booster-pump-1-hp-3-ph-20-gpm.aspx

 

[cantbreak80]

The F&W and Goulds pumps must maintain flooded inlets...otherwise, bye-bye.

I know it's out-of-the-box thinking but after multiple "No Soap" service calls, we installed 2 of the these for IBA Hi & Lo PreSoak applications.
Problem solved!

https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-3419-flojet-g257301a-air-operated-dual-diaphragm-two-pump-unit-10-gpm-1-2-in-ports-viton-seals.aspx

The FloJets can be wall-mounted plumbed with PVC foot valves in the underground RO tank and control solenoid valves installed on the compressed air supply. One pump for the arch, one for the glass.

 

[OurTown]

The F&W and Goulds pumps must maintain flooded inlets...otherwise, bye-bye.

I know it's out-of-the-box thinking but after multiple "No Soap" service calls, we installed 2 of the these for IBA Hi & Lo PreSoak applications.
Problem solved!

https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-3419-flojet-g257301a-air-operated-dual-diaphragm-two-pump-unit-10-gpm-1-2-in-ports-viton-seals.aspx

The FloJets can be wall-mounted plumbed with PVC foot valves in the underground RO tank and control solenoid valves installed on the compressed air supply. One pump for the arch, one for the glass.

I didn't look into it but the Goulds pump looked like a shallow well pump and would think it would be fine after priming and of course a good foot valve. Maybe not the most reliable solution though and expensive to replace if ran dry. Using two double diaphragm Flojets is an interesting idea and that is exactly how our new machine recirculates and delivers hot presoak to the arches. The only thing is that there is a 1" ID hose going out to the bay and is teed off to the arch solenoid valve and each window washing solenoid valve. There are six window washing solenoid valves and only one opens at a time. Would it be okay to run the two pumps in parallel on that 1" outgoing water line? Would they lift an estimated 8' on the suction side in case my tank ran low? I have also thought of just a regular submersible well pump but may have to address cooling and torque rotation issues since it may have to lay on its side on the bottom of the tank.

 

[OurTown]

This one is cheaper I assume because of the Santoprene diaphragm vs the Viton.

https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-34...m-dual-diaphragm-pump-100-psi-santoprene.aspx

 

[cantbreak80]

I only suggested using (2) double FloJets because I thought the arch and windows used separate pumps.

If the arch and windows never operate simultaneously, I believe (1) double pump will provide all the capacity your system requires.

The 8' lift question... due to space constraints, a recent FloJet installation required nearly 16' of suction hose from the remote reservoir. It's never missed a beat.

 

[OurTown]

I only suggested using (2) double FloJets because I thought the arch and windows used separate pumps.

If the arch and windows never operate simultaneously, I believe (1) double pump will provide all the capacity your system requires.

The 8' lift question... due to space constraints, a recent FloJet installation required nearly 16' of suction hose from the remote reservoir. It's never missed a beat.

I'm concerned that one pump may not be enough flow for the window washers. I can adjust the time the solenoids are open but the water might just trickle out of the holes and now be very effective. I guess I could experiment with one though. Was the 16' of suction hose the total length or the lift height? While waiting I did put in a tech help ticket at Xylem to answer a few questions but have not heard anything yet.

 

[OurTown]

The spot free arch has 17 #4005 spray tips and there are six window washing zones. Four zones have 75 .078" holes drilled into the 1" PVC pipes (washing five windows) and the two zones near the exit have 90 holes. (Washing six windows)

 

[Randy]

I don't think a double Flo-Jet is going to supply enough water for what you want to do. Your going to need something like a sprinkler pump.

 

[OurTown]

I don't think a double Flo-Jet is going to supply enough water for what you want to do. Your going to need something like a sprinkler pump.

Technically it would be four Flojet pumps with two of the doubles and 20 GPM. Wouldn't the RO water eat the sprinkler pump's cast iron impeller and housing?

 

[OurTown]

 

[OurTown]

 

[OurTown]

 

[OurTown]

Two double Flojets running @50 psi air supply. The presoak arches are not plumbed yet so I "borrowed" the Flojets to try this experiment. One of the pipes is not clocked correctly so it sprays straight down and misses the window. The others look decent. I plan to hook it up to the other side that has one solenoid valve rinsing six panes instead of five. Also, I want to put a pressure gauge in the bay to see if I can estimate how much RO water we will use.

 

[Greg Pack]

Pretty cool-How frequently will it run and for how long?

 

[cantbreak80]

Yea!!!
You can thank me later. LOL

 

[OurTown]

Pretty cool-How frequently will it run and for how long?

I believe they set it to start 15 minutes after not washing a car. We can change the delay time and how long each zone runs. If we are stacked with cars then it doesn't run. The days when we will get the trickle business there will be lots of RO water usage.

 

[OurTown]

I ran it with an open 1" line out in the bay and it put out 15 GPM @80 psi and 13 GPM @50 psi. That seemed pretty good to me considering the long runs and lift. They do use a lot of air though.

 

[OurTown]

When the valve is closed it is about 48 psi in the bay but goes down to a fluctuating 5-8 psi. Not surprising with all those holes.

 

[OurTown]

Finally a week later someone gets back to me from Xylem. He does not recommend those pumps as a solution but didn't give a reason.