self serve bay not working

[aca carwash 2]

I turned up the psi on our self serve bay. in doing so when customers were using it would cut off during the time.
if I pushed the reset button under the contactor it would come back on. now the contactor has locked up. I replaced both the contactor and piece below it and it still wont come on at the bay. if I push the contactor it comes on. Any suggestions what it might be?

 

[Jeff_L]

Are you running 3 phase? If so, the "piece" under your contactor is your overload and designed to trip when the motor is pulling too many amps on one or more of the three legs. Increasing the pressure might have added extra work on the motor resulting in the extra draw of amps.

When you replaced the contactor, did you hook your transformer back up to it correctly? Usually the transformer pulls from two legs on top of your contactor and it is what powers the 24vac for the bay.

There are a lot of troubleshooting steps to go through at this point, so start with the basics which is whether you have voltage where you need it, bay turns on, timer turns on, etc. Back to the original problem, if you increased the psi above specs, then decrease it. Check your amp draw on each leg to make sure they are the same, etc.

 

[tdlconceptsllc]

sounds like you are getting the 208/230 volts if you manually push in the starter/contactor and the electric motor runs fine that points back to the control side 24v make sure the contactor coil is getting 24v from the bay when activated. Is all the low pressure functions working and just the HP Pump is not correct ?

 

[MEP001]

It was likely wired so the thermal overload would kill the 24V to the bay when tripped. You probably have a wire out of place, most likely the contactor coil. Hopefully you can look at another bay and get it right - the terminals are probably labeled the same even with different brands.

 

[OurTown]

Just for the heck of it turn the pressure back down to where is was when working properly to see if it stays working.

 

[aca carwash 2]

Thanks guys for the replies, I believe the wires are correct, gonna look at it again today. from a troubleshooting standpoint where do I start?

- initially it was cutting off during the wash with time left after I turned up the pressure in the bay to 1200 psi
- soon after the contactor locked up
- replaced the contactor and overload
-water will come out when you hit the contactor
- bay will register coins and show time but wont come on...….
-no low pressure items will work either

 

[Randy]

Thanks guys for the replies, I believe the wires are correct, gonna look at it again today. from a troubleshooting standpoint where do I start?
- bay will register coins and show time but wont come on...….
-no low pressure items will work either

What kind of Timer are you using? I'd replace or swap the Timer. If the low pressure doesn't work I'd have to guess that the timed load on the timer is bad. A volt meter is your best friend at a car wash, if you don't have one get one and learn how to use it.

 

[br549ms]

Maybe a good idea to get an electrician to help. I am for everyone working on their equipment, but 3 phase can be dangerous if you are not knowledgeable. Also sounds like you may have a motor going to ground.

 

[MEP001]

Most electricians can't make heads or tails of the low-voltage side of a car wash. You'd be better off with a car wash technician.

I doubt it's a motor going to ground. Everything you've described points to the motor being overloaded. The only part I don't know is why you suddenly have no functions at all - from what you described the thermal overload cuts all power to the bay including the timer, so no part of what you've worked on should affect the low-pressure side. The quickest thing to do would be to swap the timer with one from another bay if the display timer is a Dixmor. If it still doesn't work, you may have reversed the hot and common somewhere when you changed the contactor.

 

[Main Street Carwash]

A short on the 24vac side will fry a dixmor timed load circuit instantly and the timer will otherwise work just fine. Maybe when the contactor "locked up" it was shorted on the 24vac side of the circuit.

 

[Randy]

A short on the 24vac side will fry a dixmor timed load circuit instantly and the timer will otherwise work just fine. Maybe when the contactor "locked up" it was shorted on the 24vac side of the circuit.

The max draw on a Dixmor timer is around 3 amps, anything higher than that you’ll run the risk of blowing the triac in the timer. Once the triac goes the timer will take coins, run like normal but will not start the equipment. There should be a relay between the timer and the equipment you’re controlling. That way the timer is controlling the relay and if something should short out on the equipment side the timer will not be damaged.

 

[aca carwash 2]

I was wrong on one thing....

-low pressure items are working


I do have voltage in the panel on high pressure selections from the bay when selection is on.


Could it still be the timer? I don't have another to swap, the display lights up. Can I troubleshoot? How?

 

[Randy]

If you have low pressure functions working then it's probably not your timer. Start the bay on high pressure soap, take your voltmeter and check to see if you have 24 volts at the motor contactor. If you have 24 volts at the contactor then your problem is at the contactor. If you don't have 24 volts at the contactor your problem is somewhere else.

 

[br549ms]

This is trouble shooting for timer: credit Dixmor.com/instructions.html
web site

2 --- TIME SHOWS ON DISPLAY AND COUNTING DOWN BUT NOTHING TURNS ON--TAKE
A SMALL PIECE OF WIRE STRIPPED ON BOTH ENDS AND TOUCH BETWEEN 24 VOLT
HOT AND TIMER OUTPUT. TIMER IS NOW OUT OF SYSTEM AND IF NOTHING STILL
TURNS ON YOU HAVE A PROBLEM ELSEWHERE, POSSIBLY ROTARY SWITCH OR
TOUCH-PAD.
4---- TIMER SHOWS TIME EXPIRED BUT SYSTEM CONTINUES TO RUN. ---DISCONNECT
TIMER OUTPUT WIRE; IF SYSTEM SHUTS OFF, TIMER IS PROBABLY DEFECTIVE. IF
SYSTEM STILL RUNS YOU PROBABLY HAVE A BAD RELAY OR MOTOR STARTER
CONTACTS STUCK IN THE CLOSED POSITION. EVEN THOUGH IT IS RARE,
OCCASIONALLY A POWER SURGE CAN LOCK UP A TIMER. REMOVE POWER FOR A FEW
MINUTES TO ALLOW RESET.

 

[MEP001]

It's definitely not the timer. You've most likely hooked up the contactor wrong or you don't have a good connection to the coil input.

 

[Randy]

What is the voltage where the wires connect to the motor contactor? Like I said it should 24 volts when the wash cycle is energized or On. What kind of timers do you have in the bays? Help us out here, we are trying to help you but your not giving anyone enough information.

 

[aca carwash 2]

have 32 volts at the bottom of the overload on1st &2nd screw 0volts on 3rd when push in on contactor this the one working. the one down same 32 volts but its on all 3 screws any thoughts thanks so much!!

 

[br549ms]

Assuming your measurements were made with timer on,
One side of the contactor pickup coil has to be grounded for it to work. Otherwise. It will read like a wire voltage on both sides.

 

[Jeff_L]

Make sure the 24v feed wire to the contactor is mounted to the correct posts. If all your low pressure is working, and if you change to HP function and all you get is city pressure water (meaning your solenoid is being energized), then the signal to pull in the contactor isn't getting to the right place. Look at another contactor and look for the 24vac lines and see where they are mounted on the contactor, then mirror it.

 

[aca carwash 2]

hey guys still trying when I check the transformer have 120v at top don't have 24v at bottom of transformer fuse is good does that mean the transformer is bad thanks again for all your help