Soap delivery issues...

[spf8298]

I have three self-serve bays and I'm having issues getting soap to the bay that is nearest the mechanical room. The other two bays seem to get soap just fine. I thought that maybe it was a grounding issue and we cleaned the contacts on the grounds for the solenoid valve. I also replaced the solenoid valves and manifold block that controls the soap this past weekend. If you turn on the other bays and run soap through them, you can finally get soap to come out of that troubled bay. It just seems to be intermittent soap on the troubled bay. I'm a newbie to this and I'm at a later loss. The wax, presoak, and foam brush all work fine....its just the soap that is giving me fits. Any suggestions or help would be appreciated.

 

[BBE]

without knowing how your manifolds up top are configured I would immediately start with inspecting the wiring behind the problem bays meter box, and also the rotary switch and the wiring on the rotary switch.

 

[JMMUSTANG]

BBE is probably right.
But I usually first try having someone in the bay pulling the trigger with the soap on.
Bleed the pump by slowly shutting the water going to it.
Bleed it 2-3 times for only 5-10 seconds then open the valve all the way.
That will help blow out gunk buildup.
See if that helps.

 

[MEP001]

Since it's an intermittent problem that seems to go away by running other bays, I would look at the possibility of something backing up from the pump through the soap line and diluting it. If it was a restriction, normally running the other bays would make the problem worse and not better.

 

[spf8298]

we checked voltage tonight across the soap solenoid on the manifold and the rotary switch in the bay and had good readings on both of those. We also tried bleeding the pump to see if we could blow out any junk and still had no luck getting soap to the bay. I'm not an electrician by any mean and I'm pretty green in the problem diagnosis area, but could it be possible that the solenoid opens up and allows soap for a while and then there is a voltage drop that closes the solenoid? If there is a voltage drop that is closing the solenoid, could a bad/failing relay cause this?

I'm going to try disconnecting the soap line from the solenoid manifold to the pump stand and blow some compressed air through it just to rule out a blockage, how ever, I don't think could be a blockage because we still get intermittent soap some of the time.

Any advice is much appreciated.

 

[spf8298]

Since it's an intermittent problem that seems to go away by running other bays, I would look at the possibility of something backing up from the pump through the soap line and diluting it. If it was a restriction, normally running the other bays would make the problem worse and not better.

What would cause something to back up from the pump?

 

[JMMUSTANG]

Do you have separate shut off valves from your fresh water tank going to each pump?
You might want to check the shut off valve and soap line from the solenoid to the pump to see if it they have corrosion/blockage in it.
Or
I had similar problem in one of my bays years ago after I put in all new nozzles.
After trying everything I replaced the new nozzle with the old one and darn if I got plenty of soap.

 

[2Biz]

Lets start with the basics! Is your soap delivery system Vacuum fed or injected? Knowing this will help diagnose the problem faster.

I've had the same thing happen as Mep described. If you have gravity fed water to the bay pumps, the water level is usually higher than the soap tank...Mine is anyway. If a soap solenoid leaks by (Doesn't close all the way or has a piece of crud in it) water from the float tank will back up into the soap feed to the solenoid, diluting it. If you have a gravity fed pump system, do you have shutoff valves to the pump? It could be your not pulling enough vacuum on the soap line for that bay. This would be only if you have vacuum fed soap...

If soap is injected, this is a whole different animal....

 

[mac]

Here's a thought that's easy to test and doesn't cost anything. The pumps get the soap to the bays by sucking the soap fr4om the mixing tank, and then sending it to the bay. When the pump sucks soap, it is also sucking water from the supply tank. As the pumps age the seals get worn, and the pump doesn't have the suction it had when new. Simply have someone hold the trigger gun open in the bay while you slowly turn the ball valve to close from the water supply. Do this till you hear the pump start to cavitate and then open till that stops. If the issue is caused by worn seals you have identified the issue and made a correction to fix it. I have amazed many owners who asked me to make their soap and wax come out better by doing this. Or you could go through all the ideas above and maybe even do a seal kit repair. Closing a valve just seems easier.

 

[MEP001]

Spot-free rinse is the most common thing that would do that.

 

[2Biz]

You're right Mac, but the Op has never told us what system he has either. I was getting there, "If you have a gravity fed pump system, do you have shutoff valves to the pump?" but if his pumps are pressure fed. Then he has a different set of problems!

 

[Jeff_L]

Did you check the plunger in the solenoid? They tend to swell up over time and not open far enough to allow the chemical to be drawn. I'd check that if I were you. I usually replace them with the red ones, i think they're viton material.

 

[spf8298]

Well....I'm living and learning in the carwash world. When we were just at our wits end, we swapped out our new 1505 IMEG spray tips and put on the old 4006 MEG tips and our soap delivery issues were fixed. Do any of you have an explanation for what would cause this? Would the orifice in the 1505 be so small that it caused pressure issues with my hypro pump not allowing soap out? Problem is, I really like the spray pattern on the 1505. Do you think I could go to a 1506 or even a 2506 tip and still get soap?

 

[kentadel]

You were probably pumping a little too much pressure for your flojet to pump against. I accidently partially shut my hot water valve
( starving the pump) to a bay at a wash and had soap like you wouldn't believe. Yes you could use a 1506 or 2506. If you like the 15 degree pattern use the 1506.

 

[MEP001]

That sounds now like your problem would have been solved by throttling back the water supply to force the pump to draw soap. It also explains why running all three pumps caused the one to get more soap, if the water plumbing is barely adequate to supply the three pumps together it would have caused more suction on the pump inlet and made it draw more soap.

 

[I.B. Washincars]

That sounds now like your problem would have been solved by throttling back the water supply to force the pump to draw soap. It also explains why running all three pumps caused the one to get more soap, if the water plumbing is barely adequate to supply the three pumps together it would have caused more suction on the pump inlet and made it draw more soap.

I totally agree.

 

[2Biz]

I'll add something that may help. When I replumbed my pumps, I used all 1/2" fittings. The size allows enough water flow AND enough vaccum for soap and wax. So I run all my shutoff valves wide open. I get more than enough vaccum to draw soap and wax. Soap and wax flow is set by needle valves on the solenoids. Very easy to make all bays the same with this setup.

 

[MEP001]

I prefer the same - I've seen a number of systems with 3/4" plumbing to the pump where they have to throttle back the water to make it draw soap and wax. I use 1/2" hose and Push-Lok flare fittings and still sometimes have to throttle back the valve so I know it's plenty big.

 

[2Biz]

I have a Mark VII stand. They plumbed the pumps with 3/4", so you had to throttle the water valves. For such a Cadillac system at the time, it left a lot to be desired. I run my soap and wax at 10 Oz per minute flow to the pump. 60-1 hydrominder. I have Dwyer flow meters so I can set each bay identically. Works for me!

 

[spf8298]

Well, here's an update. We're still having issues with intermittent soap to our self serve bays. We've gone from a 1505 tip to a 1506 tip and we've throttled back our hot water ball valves to the hypro pumps, but we still get instances of no soap to some of the bays. When we get a call that there are soap issues, we simply readjust the ball valve until we get soap at the wand, without pump cavitation. It's frustrating because there is nothing worse than someone calling saying they're getting no soap at the wash. I just want it to work consistently. Does anyone have any suggestions for me to try before we call in a service tech?