Softener help

[cantbreak80]

Bad gauge?

If you manually regenerate...wait 6 hours between tanks to allow salt to fully saturate the brine water.

 

[MEP001]

You might have to disconnect the line to the brine tank, then run each softener through its cycles and check that it's actually pulling brine on that cycle. I've seen the spacers in the head collapse and misalign the seals, then one head can't pull brine and won't soften. It's a relatively easy fix, about $150 for both upper and lower seal sets.

 

[Bricks]

You might have to disconnect the line to the brine tank, then run each softener through its cycles and check that it's actually pulling brine on that cycle. I've seen the spacers in the head collapse and misalign the seals, then one head can't pull brine and won't soften. It's a relatively easy fix, about $150 for both upper and lower seal sets.

Both checked hard just now. Can you make heads or tails of what these numbers mean?
Pics of salt tank. It never even tries to run on its own. I know nothing about these though. I don’t know if lockout is just because I have one manually cycling now, or if it means something else. I’ll check before I start it up tomorrow.

 

[Bricks]

View attachment trim.6BC0E375-5749-4C7F-9ECC-CE3CEF2A4463.MOV

 

[cantbreak80]

I linked the 3200ET manual in my last post.
It is an entertaining read

3200ET is obsolete (probably early 90s technology) and was replaced with NXT (also obsolete) and NXT2 (current)

 

[Bricks]

I linked the 3200ET manual in my last post.
It is an entertaining read

3200ET is obsolete (probably early 90s technology) and was replaced with NXT (also obsolete) and NXT2 (current)

So should I replace the whole unit?

 

[Dan kamsickas]

So should I replace the whole unit?

It's really not a matter of should you, it's a matter of when you are going to.

 

[cantbreak80]

Well…

Your decision to repair or replace. I would suggest spending 1st money on a new system. Every dollar you spend attempting to resuscitate a 20+ year old system, (with parts availability issues) might be better spent on a modern replacement. Plus, you’ll reduce hair pulling, hand-wringing, and sleeplessness while saving significant brain cells.

Also, do you really want to spend endless hours learning how the insides of a water softener works?

From the movie Kelly’s Heroes:
Big Joe: Well then, why the hell aren't you up there helping them? [fix the tank]
Oddball: answers: (laughs) Oh man, I only ride ‘em, I don't know what makes ‘em work.

Just to give some insight, those 2-piece 2900 valves were re-cast as a single piece in the middle of 2005. The new, recast version is the 2900s which has a much higher backwash rate allowing for it to be used on larger tank sizes. They use different upper pistons and most use the same lower piston, although the lower piston may look different.

The 1990s electronics were confusing and difficult to program. The NXT2 controllers are much more intuitive, simpler to program and adjust.

The 20+ year old resin has likely given most of it’s softening capacity…the stuff does have a life expectancy. And, on chlorinated municipal water that life span is typically less than 20 years…maybe less than 10 years under severe service conditions. A new, properly setup system, with fresh 10% crosslinked resin will significantly reduce salt consumption and provide you with years of quality sleep.

 

[MEP001]

You've definitely got multiple problems. That noise is the softener pulling brine, so at least that side works. Your controls work, otherwise it wouldn't switch sides and regenerate. The noise is from a failed air check, a very easy and cheap repair. I've serviced so many of these things that for me fixing it wouldn't be any more difficult than you unlocking your door, but unfortunately that doesn't help you much at all right now. I would have to agree, you'll probably be better off replacing it. I'm not familiar with the controls, but I'd trust CB80 if he says they're problematic and hard to find parts for.

 

[Bricks]

Well…

Your decision to repair or replace. I would suggest spending 1st money on a new system. Every dollar you spend attempting to resuscitate a 20+ year old system, (with parts availability issues) might be better spent on a modern replacement. Plus, you’ll reduce hair pulling, hand-wringing, and sleeplessness while saving significant brain cells.

Also, do you really want to spend endless hours learning how the insides of a water softener works?

From the movie Kelly’s Heroes:
Big Joe: Well then, why the hell aren't you up there helping them? [fix the tank]
Oddball: answers: (laughs) Oh man, I only ride ‘em, I don't know what makes ‘em work.

Just to give some insight, those 2-piece 2900 valves were re-cast as a single piece in the middle of 2005. The new, recast version is the 2900s which has a much higher backwash rate allowing for it to be used on larger tank sizes. They use different upper pistons and most use the same lower piston, although the lower piston may look different.

The 1990s electronics were confusing and difficult to program. The NXT2 controllers are much more intuitive, simpler to program and adjust.

The 20+ year old resin has likely given most of it’s softening capacity…the stuff does have a life expectancy. And, on chlorinated municipal water that life span is typically less than 20 years…maybe less than 10 years under severe service conditions. A new, properly setup system, with fresh 10% crosslinked resin will significantly reduce salt consumption and provide you with years of quality sleep.

How much sleep am I’m going to lose when you tell me roughly how much a new setup would cost? Or should I leave the SS water unsoftened and focus on softening the well water for the touchless. Right now I’m all but broke and need two water softening systems.

 

[MEP001]

Maybe you could do some replumbing first, run the well water to the rinse only on the touchless first, which will save you a tremendous amount of money on your bill, then start with a softener for the SS, the RO, and the chemicals on the auto when you can. That would require a much smaller and less expensive softener. Then down the road and if you decide you need to, soften the well water.

 

[Bricks]

Maybe you could do some replumbing first, run the well water to the rinse only on the touchless first, which will save you a tremendous amount of money on your bill, then start with a softener for the SS, the RO, and the chemicals on the auto when you can. That would require a much smaller and less expensive softener. Then down the road and if you decide you need to, soften the well water.

The well water only feeds the cat 3535 for the touchless. The presoak, Tri foam, RO and rainx are all with city water. So the wax, rinse and detergent are fed through the cat3535. Is that close enough to “rinse only” ?

 

[MEP001]

You're already feeding more from the well than just the rinse. Maybe the machine can be modified so the detergent and wax can also come from softened city water?

 

[Bricks]

You're already feeding more from the well than just the rinse. Maybe the machine can be modified so the detergent and wax can also come from softened city water?

I’m not sure the det

You're already feeding more from the well than just the rinse. Maybe the machine can be modified so the detergent and wax can also come from softened city water?

Honestly I don’t see how the detergent and wax do that much. This thing has 30 zero degree nozzles at 900 psi and puts out one hell of a lot of water. I have the hydrominders appropriately tipped, according to the soap guy. I’m still learning though.

 

[MEP001]

IIRC they have detergent on the high pressure pass, but it's too weak to do anything, it's just for show. Wax should be applied at low pressure for the same reason.

 

[Bricks]

IIRC they have detergent on the high pressure pass, but it's too weak to do anything, it's just for show. Wax should be applied at low pressure for the same reason.

So since both are useless, they could continue being useless in well water.

 

[Bricks]

Would this be a good one to get for the touchless?

2 Tank Alternating Water Softener | Diamond H20 | DCS7-30-100

Control hard water and improve soap and chemical efficiency and effectiveness with Diamond H20 water softeners, from Kleen-Rite!

www.kleen-ritecorp.com

I really don’t want the bay to get nasty looking. I just painted it. Or I could see how it holds up. Paint is cheaper than the salt alone.

 

[MEP001]

You're going to need a bigger softener than that. I would suggest at least 1-1/2" and a minimum of 7 cu. ft. of resin. Remember you're using 40-50 gallons per minute. You could use a smaller softener but you would need a large holding tank for the pump supply that's going to have to fill slowly, and you wouldn't want it running dry with several cars in a row.

 

[Bricks]

You're going to need a bigger softener than that. I would suggest at least 1-1/2" and a minimum of 7 cu. ft. of resin. Remember you're using 40-50 gallons per minute. You could use a smaller softener but you would need a large holding tank for the pump supply that's going to have to fill slowly, and you wouldn't want it running dry with several cars in a row.

Ok . Good to know. As far as the big fleck system replacement. Should I order a softener and one of those pre plumbed heads then have a plumber put it in? Do I need new tanks? Or new resin and gravel?

 

[cantbreak80]

• Flow Rate: 13 GPM Continuous / 18 GPM Peak

This means 13 GPM at 15% pressure loss. So, if your incoming pressure is 65 PSI is now 55.25 PSI

Operating at PEAK GPM lowers pressure by 25%...now you’re down to 48.75 PSI

Peak GPM is for occasional operation. Bad things can happen with frequent peak volume…damaged and lost resin, for example. Fractured resin can flow thru the softener’s valve and into the supply plumbing…it’s a real bi*ch to clean resin from solenoids, float valves, and hydrominders.

Service Flow Rate is a critical factor to calculate when sizing a water treatment system. Softening, neutralizing, chemical reduction and more require systems designed within set parameters. Intermittent water softening flow rates can be as high as 10 gpm per ft³ (20-30 gpm per ft²) but slower flow rates are recommended. High flow rates for extended amounts of time will produce low quality water, excessive pressure drop and reduced resin life.

Pressure drop will occur anytime something is added to the plumbing. A softener, pipe length, fittings and more all create flow restrictions increasing the pressure drop. Larger pipe sizes, wider tanks, high flow manifolds and multiple tank systems should be considered to reduce pressure drop.

Peak Flow Rates are based on the systems flow rate with a specified amount of pressure loss. All systems will create some pressure loss while water is flowing. Sizing a system to the peak flow rate should be avoided, but if a system will only hit the peak flow rates intermittently, this can be an effective way to prevent the installation of excessively large equipment.

Velocity is the speed of water inside of a pipe. For example, 1” Copper pipe can flow in excess of 40 gpm but the velocity at this flow rate can cause damage to the pipe, excessive noise and considerable water hammer. A properly designed plumbing system would limit the flow to less than 20 gpm in a cold water 1” pipe.

Uniform Plumbing Code (UPC) and local plumbing codes should be followed when sizing and installing a water treatment system.

Some links:

Product Detail (ohiopurewater.com)

Fleck 2900S 2 Inch Commercial Duplex Alternating Metered Softener | Up to 140GPM (flecksystems.com)

US Water Commercial Single Metered Softener 2 Inch - 140GPM (uswatersystems.com)

Commercial Water Softener Systems | trusco.us