Sonny's G5 / Hydrospray Cobra

[robert roman]

“I always wondered why that technology wasn't used in our world.”

It is with conveyors. A conveyor is a product layout like an auto assembly line where the equipment is arranged according to the steps necessary to produce the product.

A conventional in-bay uses a project layout where labor, materials and tools are brought to a job site like in making airplanes. If the demand for airplanes was great like it is for cars and price wasn’t millions of dollars per plane, then a product layout would make more sense.

Several years ago, I contacted one of the companies that make the robotic arms that spray paint cars on assembly lines to see if there was interest in using robots to wash cars.

The company wasn’t interested because the carwash equipment manufacturing industry is cottage-size.

Another reason for absence of high-tech innovation in in-bays may be motivation.

If the de facto standard is inverted-L or other configuration selling for $100K to $125K that does 10 to 12 cars an hour, what motivation is there to make something better? Need more capacity? I will gladly sell you another machine for $100K to $125K.

Of course, this opened the door for reverse engineering and less expensive clones or copycats as well as companies who designed in-bay express – pulling certain functions from the roll-over to arrange them in a linear manner as in a conveyor.

Not only did Petit come up with a unique invention, he also designed a great business model.

His product addresses many operator problems. His innovation will unlock potential of the segment. His company will capture value because the product delivers more value to his customers (operators). He should be able to sustain comparative advantage by means of cost, differentiation and niche strategy.

 

[rph9168]

60 divided by 2 does equal 30 but it doesn't equal that in the real world. If you ever watched people enter and leave an automatic you would quickly see that there is no way they could load continuously which is what it would take to achieve that number. In addition the video shows a basic wash with no tri-foam or sealant which would take at least two passes - one for the application and one for rinse. There are a number of automatics on the market that could achieve those numbers under normal circumstances.

As far as the prototype it is very similar to what Istobal and Ceccato offer in their short tunnels - a combination of automatic technology on a conveyor. Autec also offers a similar configuration without a conveyor that can achieve 50 to 60 cars per hour under optimum conditions. I really don't view it as that revolutionary but you're entitled to your opinion.

 

[robert roman]

“If you ever watched people enter and leave an automatic you would quickly see that there is no way they could load continuously which is what it would take to achieve that number.”

Not only have I observed a lot systems, I am adept at the mathematics and solving of waiting line problems. There are a number ways to enhance entrance characteristics.

“In addition the video shows a basic wash with no tri-foam or sealant which would take at least two passes - one for the application and one for rinse.”

Since most tri-foam is siliconized soap, it can and is increasingly being applied at the same time as cleaning detergent (i.e. mini-tunnels). Sealant can be applied immediately before final rinse. It works on contact no dwell necessary.

“As far as the prototype it is very similar to what Istobal and Ceccato offer in their short tunnels - a combination of automatic technology on a conveyor.”

I am very familiar with Istobal and know of Ceccato and their systems use gantry and are not industrial robot – operating 6 axis.

“Autec also offers a similar configuration without a conveyor that can achieve 50 to 60 cars per hour under optimum conditions.”

I am very familiar with Autec products and you can bank on about 30 cars an hour with EV-1 express in-bay with a 60’ long bay. Search the web, Autec has a PDF brochure that gives EV-1 capacities.

Why the beat down on this guy’s patentable invention?

Tom’s system is real innovation not some cheap knock off of someone else’s brainchild which is often standard fair in the carwash industry.

 

[rph9168]

I an not knocking it but frankly it is not that revolutionary. It looks like an efficient system and may or may not be the first step in an evolution of equipment. Before Steve Chase passed away his automatic called the Storm was the best use of robotics I have seen. In addition to reducing water consumption it also reduced chemical costs. Given time I think his concept would have been equally if not superior to what this appears to be.

To a certain extent when trying to improve the time it takes to wash a vehicle with a touch free system is hindered by the need for dwell time. While the Istobal and Ceccato system as well as the Autec equipment may not involve robotics they certainly enhance the ability to do volume which I thought was the intent.

As far as applying tri-foams or sealants at the same time as detergents I believe that in addition to creating some cleaning issues that it would not encourage customers to upgrade a wash. As we all know we are dealing with perceptions as well as a value proposition when attempting to upsell and trying to do it all at once does not enhance that perception or value. There is no way an automatic set up like this will do 30 cars an hour in the real world.

 

[gearhead]

in bay robot

I find the the design to be very interesting. 30 cph out of a touch free IB will get alot of peoples attention. Mr. Roman, please let us know when your friend gets some more video of the wash in action. Maybe you could ask him to post a couple of top wash packages for viewing. Its hard not to skeptical with a very impressive number like that. A video or two of some of that "pudding" you were discussing would speak louder than words.

 

[sprocket]

I don't see anything special about the accutrac car wash.

 

[mac]

There's another aspect to a super fast wash in an inbay auto that isn't mentioned. I relate it to getting a haircut. No one wants to wait in line for one, but when it's your turn in the chair, it becomes take your time and enjoy it. Likewise if you could come up with an inbay that did the complete wash in 15 seconds, I think a lot of people would feel cheated.

 

[robert roman]

Gearhead,

Please no Mr. Roman, my name’s Bob.

As you might expect, Tom is knee deep in operating his washes and manufacturing business and launching a new product.

In fact, it was only recently that I was given permission to speak publically about the I-360 in my last newsletter and an upcoming article.

As stated in my newsletter, Tom’s future plans include advertising and possibly the addition of a newsletter.

“Likewise if you could come up with an inbay that did the complete wash in 15 seconds, I think a lot of people would feel cheated.”

Unless you happen to be located in area where there is not much to do other than peel apples and watch the cores turn brown, leisure time has become more precious to people.

If you could produce a wash in 15 seconds that was as good as a five-minute wash, I believe;

1) You would become a very rich man

2) I would go to your carwash instead of the other guy

3) I would be willing to pay more than the five-minute wash

4) I would tell everyone I know about your wash

 

[sprocket]

One of my competitors has a oasis Typhoon. This machine is very fast and does a good job but most people feel short change because it happens so quick. People have to feel they are getting their money's worth or they are disapointed. It's been a long time since I had to worry about speed because I have been slow. Speed can not be the total thought, quality of the wash must be the most important objective for repeat business.

 

[sprocket]

How did this post get way off point? Is Robert Roman a car wash expert and what determines someone to be an expert, just asking?

 

[robert roman]

“How did this post get way off point?”

Arguably, it got off point because certain people like the subject and topic and people have different opinions which make the dialog interesting, thought provoking and perhaps entertaining to some.

“Is Robert Roman a car wash expert and what determines someone to be an expert, just asking?”

Some folks do consider that I am an expert in certain aspects of the carwash industry.

Since I don’t have an agenda of selling equipment or chemical, my participation here is mostly to provide a kick-start of creativity to a segment of the market that was described several years ago by Charlie Lieb with PDQ as lagging, struggling and in a quandary.

So, if you want to stick your head in the sand like an ostrich rather than like an eagle looking for an updraft to soar higher, you are entitled to both your opinion and decision.

That said, I will not belabor you any further.

 

[mac]

sprocket, just a suggestion. If you are going to jab someone, you should use proper grammer. "... like to here them self talk." Shouls be " like to hear themselves talk." So if you have friends and go to a social function, two presumptions by me, and someone changes the conversation, is that bad? I can remember in my misspent youth when I was a very active skydiver, at social functions we wouls always hear the women comment, Jeez, all they talk about is skydiving. The fact that the conversation went on for a while suggests that people are interested in it. And after thinking over Bob's response to a comment from me, I might just put together that 15 second wash that I've had rumbling around in my head for years. It's very doable with off the shelf technology.
Just won't discuss it in the open. As to what makes someone an expert, I refer to that all time great Babe Ruth, who when asked why he bragged so much responded, "If you can do it, it ain't bragging."