Spot Free Help

[slash007]

I finally got all of the leaks fixed on my SFR system and had time to mess with it, but I can't get SF water to make. TDS at the holding tank was 192! TDS right after the small filter where it comes into the SFR system is actually lower, at 152 so no idea what's going on. I tried to adjust the regulator while is was making SF water, but no matter which way I turned it, nothing changed on the gauges. The manual says that it is factory set and shouldn't have to be messed with, but since it was a used unit, I figured maybe it was moved. I turned the knob 7 turns in each direction with no effect on the product or reject lever in the flow meter. What should I do next, and what could cause the TDS to stay high if the membranes are new? Is it possible they were installed backward? View attachment 977

 

[mac]

That's quite possible. It's easy to put them in backwards. There are also O rings that go in the end caps, and if they are bad, same thing happens.

 

[lag]

When installing membranes the brine seal on the membrane must be at the solution side( where water enters the membrane). If installed correctly you should check that the orings in the end caps are good as stated above.

 

[slash007]

If the other rings look good, is that all I can go by, or is there another way to tell if they are bad? I thought there purpose was so that no water leaks out of the end caps?

 

[lag]

There are smaller orings in the end cap where the membrane meets the end cap. Usually two per.. The larger outside orings on the end cap are for stopping water leaking

 

[slash007]

Membranes were installed correctly and small o-rings seem fine, but the bottom of the membranes and the caps were pretty dirty. I cleaned everything and am putting them back on. About the regulator, if the product is way higher than the reject, wouldn't that have it not make SF water?

 

[slash007]

TDS is still at 150. Not really sure what else to try at this point.

 

[2Biz]

How many PSI are you running on the membrane? Should be in the neighborhood of 190 PSi when making SFR water. I believe the knob (regulator) is what sets pressure on the membrane. The gauge is just to the left of the regulator.

 

[slash007]

How many PSI are you running on the membrane? Should be in the neighborhood of 190 PSi when making SFR water. I believe the knob (regulator) is what sets pressure on the membrane. The gauge is just to the left of the regulator.

Good call, I just checked and the pressure holds steady right around 120psi. Adjusting the regulator does nothing. As simple as a bad regulator?

 

[lag]

I'm assuming 2 membrane system..

If that pic is your system while running, the good water should be 2.25 to 2.5 gallons per min., looks like it’s over 5. Waste looks to be 1 gallon per min, I can’t read PSI, but as stated above 190-225max for two membrane system should be about right.

I would expect about 4-5 waste. Does the reject water have a valve on it? if so you could get it to 1:1 What is the TDS of waste water? Probably not the issue. but is product and reject plumbed correctly?

If psi is good and flow is approximately 2-3 for product, and 4-5 waste. You will need to go back to membranes. I put ball valves on each membrane on the opposite end cap, on the good water port (middle of the end cap) that way I can test each membrane individually, your plumbing may or may not allow that.

Just another thought.
if either of the membranes show any splitting on outside of it, it’s no good.
Did you install new membranes, or was it sold to you as such? If they been sitting around and dried out possible they maybe the fouled?

 

[slash007]

Membranes are new, so I doubt they are the issue but you never know. The only adjustments that I see are the regulator in the middle and that doesn't affect anything no matter which way I turn it. I have the same system at another wash and any adjustment to that regulator affects the reject rate. Psi won't go above 120, so I need to get that working first.

What is the middle flow meter for? The left one is for product, right for reject, not sure what the middle one is for. It reads in increments of .2.

 

[lag]

I was wondering about middle one myself.

Yes PSI will need to get corrected, even so id expect your TDS to be lower. may need regulator or rebuild??

is it a 3 phase pump? may need to just switch a couple legs around to get the pump to turn in right direction,

 

[slash007]

Pump is 1 phase, so no issues there. Funny thing is that the TDS is higher after running through the membranes. Everything seems to be plumbed correctly. I compared it to my other system and didn't see anything hooked up differently.

 

[MEP001]

IIRC the middle meter is showing how much is getting cycled back to the pump.

If the regulator isn't affecting the pressure, then it's bad.

Is it possible you got the lines reversed on one of the membranes? The fitting in the center is product, the one on the edge is reject, and I believe they have the same thread and 1/2" flare fitting.

 

[slash007]

IIRC the middle meter is showing how much is getting cycled back to the pump.

Thanks to everyone that chimed in, but MEP just solved it! The only thing that I didn't do personally was to reattach the lines on the membranes. I just went back and looked at them and on one of them, I had to switch the product and reject lines. Looks like he turned the whole cylinder 180 when he put it back since the caps came off, and then just hooked the lines back where they reached. Problem is that the center nipple was now hooked up to the reject line. I would have never known the difference had you not told me that the product is in the center and reject on the edge.

I turned the system back on and now the regulator works. I have the pressure set to about 180psi and the product and reject are both around 2, so 1/1. My only question now is if I should leave it like that, or have it reject any more water. I can't affect the product. Also, what do I do with the middle meter. I set it at .4 by partially closing the shut off valve, but no idea what it should be set at.

TDS with this setup is now at 8.

 

[MEP001]

I don't think you can directly affect the middle meter - adjusting the system pressure changes that flow, and I believe that meter is there just so you can see what's going where. You should be good as long as the product/reject flows and system pressure are right.

 

[slash007]

I don't think you can directly affect the middle meter - adjusting the system pressure changes that flow, and I believe that meter is there just so you can see what's going where. You should be good as long as the product/reject flows and system pressure are right.

The middle meter is actually affected by a small shut off valve that is right on top of the solenoid that opens when the SFR pump calls for water. I have that shut off valve partially shut in order to get that middle meter to about .4. Any adjustment I make to that shut off valve affects the middle meter. Is 2/2 for product/reject ok?

 

[MEP001]

Yes, but I'm curious where the flow from that valve goes, I assume back into the pump.

 

[slash007]

My SFR has been running perfect ever since you guys helped me get it going. Now I have an issue and had to shut it down, and have no idea where to start. I went into the ER this morning and the SFR tank was lower than usual, the RO system wasn't making more, and the reject hose was pouring water. I shut off the fuses to the system and everything stopped. After turning it back on, I heard the click that says the SFR tank needs water, the RO system turned on, but wasn't normal. The product flow was bouncing between 0-1, the reject was steady at 0 and water would pour out of the reject hose. After about 10 seconds, the RO system stopped, but water kept running out of the reject hose until I turned off power to the system. This happens every time I reset it. What could cause something like that? I have my reject going to my holding tank, so no idea how long it's been acting up.

Thanks.

 

[MEP001]

Try bypassing the low pressure cutoff switch. If you end up needing one I have a link at work for a replacement.