SSCWN Article - Wash all you want
- Thread starter mmurra
- Start date
robert roman
Bob Roman
I’ve been following the discussion on this topic on another forum.
From what I can gather, it appears to work with larger sites that have a lot of wand-bays.
Unfortunately, I haven’t had the time to gain any insight by analyzing area household statistics, lifestyle characteristics or the competitive environment where these washes are located.
It is very difficult to argue with someone’s apparent success, but I’m not certain this is a road that every self-service owner would want to consider, at least based on conversations I have had with some of my clients.
For example, certain areas of Atlanta are over-built with low-priced express washes. In those markets, some of the express washes seem to be struggling mightily.
Wand and in-bay combinations are wide spread and over-built in certain markets.
What happens if a majority of owners in those markets make the switch to this all-you-want-for-one-price format?
I see a potential train wreck. Suppliers and vendors selling more equipment and chemical as self-service owners fight for shares of a market that is not growing.
Food for thought.
From what I can gather, it appears to work with larger sites that have a lot of wand-bays.
Unfortunately, I haven’t had the time to gain any insight by analyzing area household statistics, lifestyle characteristics or the competitive environment where these washes are located.
It is very difficult to argue with someone’s apparent success, but I’m not certain this is a road that every self-service owner would want to consider, at least based on conversations I have had with some of my clients.
For example, certain areas of Atlanta are over-built with low-priced express washes. In those markets, some of the express washes seem to be struggling mightily.
Wand and in-bay combinations are wide spread and over-built in certain markets.
What happens if a majority of owners in those markets make the switch to this all-you-want-for-one-price format?
I see a potential train wreck. Suppliers and vendors selling more equipment and chemical as self-service owners fight for shares of a market that is not growing.
Food for thought.
Whale of a Wash
5 Washes 36Bays 2Vectors
The idea has merit, if your customer is interested in washing. For the customer that stops by for a air freshener and window wipe, maybe not so good. Also the customer that has a clean car and just wants to vacuum a couple cycles. I have a full serve competitor 4 blocks away, and i receive so many people that won't spend the full serve vacuum price, and they just buy vending and vacuum. I think i would loose alot of small item purchasers, and just get the real mudders(The fat people in the Buffet line). Having said that i think in the right area with the right demographics and soil composition(No gumbo like us), it would seem to be a good idea. The small purchaser though will probably avoid your wash, and every $1 adds up.
I agree with Robert. If the majority of owners make the switch, the ONLY thing left to fight over is price, which will go down even further.
Remember.... this is a weather based business first, economy / price / gated system etc. are all after.
I would rather see the customer who wants to pay one price get some form of electronic swipe card that would be good for all services like a buffet, but have a time limit on it for all the services provided wash / vacs.
This way, customers that only want to wash can wash. If they only want to vacuum, they can vacuum. If they only want a single air freshener, they can still buy it. Or, if they want the buy it for one price they could.
I just do not know HOW you could create a system that would work for "Use any equipment on site for X of minutes or even X hours" for this one low price. How do you control the "usage" of this card ? The idea for the gated system is everyone pays one price, no "sharing time" as would happen with a card system...... just my 2 cents
Remember.... this is a weather based business first, economy / price / gated system etc. are all after.
I would rather see the customer who wants to pay one price get some form of electronic swipe card that would be good for all services like a buffet, but have a time limit on it for all the services provided wash / vacs.
This way, customers that only want to wash can wash. If they only want to vacuum, they can vacuum. If they only want a single air freshener, they can still buy it. Or, if they want the buy it for one price they could.
I just do not know HOW you could create a system that would work for "Use any equipment on site for X of minutes or even X hours" for this one low price. How do you control the "usage" of this card ? The idea for the gated system is everyone pays one price, no "sharing time" as would happen with a card system...... just my 2 cents
mmurra
Member
Thanks for the comments and keep them coming! I suppose there is a niche for some stores to convert to pay one price. There is a niche for pay one price buffets, amusement parks, etc. Not everyone in any market (generally), tries to compete on the same level, but somehow it works out for a certain niche in each market to be successful. Not every restaurant tries to be a buffet (thank goodness), but the ones that do it well, do succeed. Any comments from pay one price operators? Mark
Greg Pack
Wash Weenie
I have brought this concept up in a couple of threads. I'll try to find them and post a link if there is anything worthy.
The concept was developed for an established wand wash that had had their volume siphoned away by local expresses. The site is well maintained, but gross revenue that was nearly 100K through the nineties has dropped to about 50K. This town is full of SS washes whose best revenue days are long gone and show no sign or returning.
IMO, In many places the SS washing experience has gotten expensive in comparison to other wash services. You've got to wonder why customers keep coming to the SS when an express is quicker, easier, can do a good job, and is a better value. Yes. there are still some customers that don't like automated washing, but I think the vast majority of my customers just want a clean car in the easiest way possible, and don't really care how they get it. Removing the price component ensures at least that the SSs can compete on a value basis. Throwing in the little extras like free shampoo & spray fragrance might sweeten the deal enough for some people who would have taken their car to an express to come to a POP (pay one price)SS.
There are some ways to keep the fat people out of the buffet line, as whale says. You first realize that once you convert you can't be everything to everyone. I don't think you want RVs, boats, motor homes, tractors, bobcats, backhoes, etc. because they are guaranteed revenue losers. A simple IBA entrance arch would keep a lot of that out.
All the operators I have spoken to and generally happy with their conversion. Robert Greene in Savannah has been very forthcoming with numbers and has seen impressive revenue gains of about 80% over the standard format. Goo-Goo has a site in Auburn, Al. and my understanding is they are running it attended and shutting down at 8pm. They have reported increased revenue and less mess to deal with.
Admittedly, this is not for everyone. If you have a small location, or you're lucky enough to have above average bay revenues I wouldn't consider a conversion. For those of us that have had to deal with the express format steamrolling through their market it is an option to help survive. As the economy improves and entrepreneurs get back to developing car washes, expresses will be the format of choice for the next decade and will continue to permeate new markets, so you SS guys in metro areas need to be ready to deal with them. Not IF they come, but WHEN they come.
The concept was developed for an established wand wash that had had their volume siphoned away by local expresses. The site is well maintained, but gross revenue that was nearly 100K through the nineties has dropped to about 50K. This town is full of SS washes whose best revenue days are long gone and show no sign or returning.
IMO, In many places the SS washing experience has gotten expensive in comparison to other wash services. You've got to wonder why customers keep coming to the SS when an express is quicker, easier, can do a good job, and is a better value. Yes. there are still some customers that don't like automated washing, but I think the vast majority of my customers just want a clean car in the easiest way possible, and don't really care how they get it. Removing the price component ensures at least that the SSs can compete on a value basis. Throwing in the little extras like free shampoo & spray fragrance might sweeten the deal enough for some people who would have taken their car to an express to come to a POP (pay one price)SS.
There are some ways to keep the fat people out of the buffet line, as whale says. You first realize that once you convert you can't be everything to everyone. I don't think you want RVs, boats, motor homes, tractors, bobcats, backhoes, etc. because they are guaranteed revenue losers. A simple IBA entrance arch would keep a lot of that out.
All the operators I have spoken to and generally happy with their conversion. Robert Greene in Savannah has been very forthcoming with numbers and has seen impressive revenue gains of about 80% over the standard format. Goo-Goo has a site in Auburn, Al. and my understanding is they are running it attended and shutting down at 8pm. They have reported increased revenue and less mess to deal with.
Admittedly, this is not for everyone. If you have a small location, or you're lucky enough to have above average bay revenues I wouldn't consider a conversion. For those of us that have had to deal with the express format steamrolling through their market it is an option to help survive. As the economy improves and entrepreneurs get back to developing car washes, expresses will be the format of choice for the next decade and will continue to permeate new markets, so you SS guys in metro areas need to be ready to deal with them. Not IF they come, but WHEN they come.
Greg Pack
Wash Weenie
There are some other markets where this concept would be tough to operate. Low income markets that are still traditionally decent SS locations could be a problem at unattended sites. I've witnessed low income customers view the SS washing as a true expression of love for their most prized possession. I've seen certain individuals at certain locations spend hours at my former sites. No, they don't spend money for hours, but they can occupy my site for hours. They start up for 2.00, then hand wash for half an hour, then rinse for 2.00, then wax in the shade in the bay, etc. I have witnessed these "customers" doing this even on a busy day when others are jockeying for a bay to wash in. When I confront them their general attitude is usually "I was here first" and don't care at all that I am trying to run a business here. They are also the ones I view as most likely to abuse the services since they are often unemployed and they don't seem to have to be anywhere. One day, I watched a guy at an express start up a central vac for eight five minute cycles to vacuum out his four door sedan. In these areas you would generally have to overlook that practice, or hire an attendant to marshal the bays, which would not be a fun job. These customers will be an issue at an unattended wash in certain low income areas. As MJC indicated, this would be a good opportunity for an equipment vendor to develop the appropriate software to manage a POP SS. When the customer pays at the gate they could receive a code, good on any one piece of equipment at a time, for a certain time period. A shaded drying/detailing area would be helpful, too.
In higher income areas, I don't think squatting in the bay will be as much of a problem, but it will still occur to a lessor extent. That's why this concept would be best suited to larger washes with six or more bays. IIRC correctly Bob Clements of Wonderwash offered unlimited time but found after a while the average time washed was less than 20 minutes.
I don't think this concept will start any resurgence of building the SS format, but might be an opportunity for a savvy operator to pick up some existing SSs for a song and start to generate some decent returns. You can pick up several suitable sites in this town for conversion for less than 200K.
In higher income areas, I don't think squatting in the bay will be as much of a problem, but it will still occur to a lessor extent. That's why this concept would be best suited to larger washes with six or more bays. IIRC correctly Bob Clements of Wonderwash offered unlimited time but found after a while the average time washed was less than 20 minutes.
I don't think this concept will start any resurgence of building the SS format, but might be an opportunity for a savvy operator to pick up some existing SSs for a song and start to generate some decent returns. You can pick up several suitable sites in this town for conversion for less than 200K.
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I'm in WI and have a couple of self-service locations. I have been looking into converting one of the two (to start) into a gated, POP model, hoping to boost revenue. I wasn't really worried about squatters until I read this thread. The area that the wash I was considering converting is in has fairly high visibility (but not easy access) from both a highway and interstate. However, the area is lower income and I'm wondering if squatting would be a problem. I still plan to run everything on timers hoping to deter people from restarting (not sure that will have much of an effect) the equipment. I feel like I've got to do something to get these self-service washes updated...I don't want to deal with tokens or coins anymore. That said, I see some positives in having this type of format that no one mentioned:
1) Increased security because it's gated...you're only there if you've paid and you're actually washing your car. Let's bring the women back!
2) Fewer incidences of break-ins and vandalism. Perhaps one of the worst things we did was put bill acceptors in each bay. There are holes there now because someone smashed them all in to take the money. They are not cheap!! Also, in four years my two washes combined have suffered 7 break-ins and all the ensuing damage.
3) Less equipment to deal with/equipment located centrally. I can remove my bill changers, token machines, and in-bay bill acceptors.
4) Fewer equipment complaints...at least regarding changer and token machines that don't work properly. These two things seem to generate the bulk of my complaints.
5) With this new model I would install security cameras and customers will finally be held liable for damages caused to my equipment and property.
6) LESS DUMPING!!! Finally, I can prevent people from bring their furniture, appliances, and dead deer (yes, dead deer) to leave on my site in the bays or in the dumpster.
7) I can finally do something to generate some real excitement about my wash and give a perceived increase in value for offering unlimited time and free vacs. Look, hardly anyone buys vending stuff from us, so I'm not really worried about the casual person who wants to stop by for a window wipe. I may also keep one vac out of the gated area for those who just want to vaccuum. It will not be free.
Also, addressing the comment about leaving a dollar behind for the customer who doesn't want to pay the one price to use everything because they just want to wash... That statement conflicts with another statement made about being everything to everybody...you can't. I had it put to me like, 'if you lose your cheap customers, who cares' because the price to get on the lot is higher. Those people aren't contributing much to the bottom line anyway. I think the gated model would bring in more rec vehicles too. And with this model we hope to increase our fleet business.
I feel much better now that I've reaffirmed many of the reasons I'm considering doing this. Initially after reading the thread I started to get nervous about it...but I truly believe it's a good thing. Every self-serve that's tried this model that I've heard of has seen a marked increase in revenue...well enough to warrant the money invested for the conversion. And to the comment that if the conveyors come in we're all screwed...well, there's ALWAYS what if in any business. But in the end it's better to be forward thinking than fearful and stagnant IMO.
1) Increased security because it's gated...you're only there if you've paid and you're actually washing your car. Let's bring the women back!
2) Fewer incidences of break-ins and vandalism. Perhaps one of the worst things we did was put bill acceptors in each bay. There are holes there now because someone smashed them all in to take the money. They are not cheap!! Also, in four years my two washes combined have suffered 7 break-ins and all the ensuing damage.
3) Less equipment to deal with/equipment located centrally. I can remove my bill changers, token machines, and in-bay bill acceptors.
4) Fewer equipment complaints...at least regarding changer and token machines that don't work properly. These two things seem to generate the bulk of my complaints.
5) With this new model I would install security cameras and customers will finally be held liable for damages caused to my equipment and property.
6) LESS DUMPING!!! Finally, I can prevent people from bring their furniture, appliances, and dead deer (yes, dead deer) to leave on my site in the bays or in the dumpster.
7) I can finally do something to generate some real excitement about my wash and give a perceived increase in value for offering unlimited time and free vacs. Look, hardly anyone buys vending stuff from us, so I'm not really worried about the casual person who wants to stop by for a window wipe. I may also keep one vac out of the gated area for those who just want to vaccuum. It will not be free.
Also, addressing the comment about leaving a dollar behind for the customer who doesn't want to pay the one price to use everything because they just want to wash... That statement conflicts with another statement made about being everything to everybody...you can't. I had it put to me like, 'if you lose your cheap customers, who cares' because the price to get on the lot is higher. Those people aren't contributing much to the bottom line anyway. I think the gated model would bring in more rec vehicles too. And with this model we hope to increase our fleet business.
I feel much better now that I've reaffirmed many of the reasons I'm considering doing this. Initially after reading the thread I started to get nervous about it...but I truly believe it's a good thing. Every self-serve that's tried this model that I've heard of has seen a marked increase in revenue...well enough to warrant the money invested for the conversion. And to the comment that if the conveyors come in we're all screwed...well, there's ALWAYS what if in any business. But in the end it's better to be forward thinking than fearful and stagnant IMO.
Just for info...my two washes are the only self-serve locations in town. The one that I'm not going to convert just yet is directly competing with a conveyor wash that is cheaper than my bays, has a better location with more visibility...you have to actually drive by it to get to my wash...and free vacs. I want to start with the other one though because I think it would be a better test location. If it does well and I can scrounge up the money for the conversion, I'd happily convert the other one.
Thanks for everyone's comments and also for starting this thread. Definitely food for thought.
Thanks for everyone's comments and also for starting this thread. Definitely food for thought.
mmurra
Member
SSW - I like the idea for the same reasons you do. I recently visited a gated ss wash in Panama City, Fl. and liked what I saw. I am planning on making the change in the months to come. I will report occasionally on the process. I hope you report your progress as well. Good luck! Mark
Mark, are you planning to staff your wash when you convert it to gated? Did the one you visited in FL have an attendant on duty most of the day? That's my only uncertainty. Currently my attendants pretty much clean and go.
I'm still getting all my costs together, but if I pull the trigger on converting to gated, I'm going to try to do so this summer.
Good luck to you as well!
I'm still getting all my costs together, but if I pull the trigger on converting to gated, I'm going to try to do so this summer.
Good luck to you as well!
mmurra
Member
The two gated wash operators indicated that they attend at least 40 hrs/wk. I will be doing that, but for the first few months, much, much more than that. Good luck to you! Mark
mmurra
Member
We have made the conversion and are in the process of a grand opening at our 6+2 in Michigan. Mark
Ric
Cantree Member
Hey Mark, got any pictures of the wash?
mmurra
Member
I can do something soon. Mark
Greg Pack
Wash Weenie
Yes guys, keep us posted.
Of the few POP washes, I haven't heard any operator express regrets yet.
There is a second POP being converted in PC Florida.
I've got a 5/2 that I may convert in a year or so If I can't get revenue up the traditional way.
ETA- SECWA will have a short presentation in Orlando next week about POP SS. It's not too late to register!
http://secwa.org/images/documents/expo/2011orlando_agenda.pdf
Of the few POP washes, I haven't heard any operator express regrets yet.
There is a second POP being converted in PC Florida.
I've got a 5/2 that I may convert in a year or so If I can't get revenue up the traditional way.
ETA- SECWA will have a short presentation in Orlando next week about POP SS. It's not too late to register!
http://secwa.org/images/documents/expo/2011orlando_agenda.pdf
robert roman
Bob Roman
Any idea of where this self-service conversion is located in Pinellas County, Florida? I live in PC and would love the opportunity to gauge how well this concept works. PC is an area where many people's idea of a car wash is driving through a rain storm.
Greg Pack
Wash Weenie
Sorry. PC=Panama City
mmurra
Member
https://picasaweb.google.com/105568198313887701450/AdrianImageCenterJuly#5627404737342605890
Here are some pictures located at googe/picasa. See if that works. You can see the before pictures at our website www.adrianimagecenter.com. We have not updated the site with new pictures. If this does not work, please help me with instructions! Thanks!
I read the article in SSCWN and then spoke with / visited the car wash owners featured. I pulled the trigger on the project immediately after that, budgeted 25k to do the project, which involved converting all services to push to start, moving two refurbished Hamilton Auto Cashiers (Park model upgrade), from the Touch free automatic entrances to the carwash entrance and installing three gates (two entry, one exit). We remained open during the conversion and completed the retrofit in about a month, one piece at a time. We opened the end of June. We have committed to a grand opening through July at 50% off the regular price of $6. We are quite busy (dry weather), and have positive comments from customers. We budgeted 5k for the marketing including newspaper, direct mail and radio remote, as well as on location signage. We are attending 60-80 hrs a week during this time, 40 after the GO. So far so good!
Here are some pictures located at googe/picasa. See if that works. You can see the before pictures at our website www.adrianimagecenter.com. We have not updated the site with new pictures. If this does not work, please help me with instructions! Thanks!
I read the article in SSCWN and then spoke with / visited the car wash owners featured. I pulled the trigger on the project immediately after that, budgeted 25k to do the project, which involved converting all services to push to start, moving two refurbished Hamilton Auto Cashiers (Park model upgrade), from the Touch free automatic entrances to the carwash entrance and installing three gates (two entry, one exit). We remained open during the conversion and completed the retrofit in about a month, one piece at a time. We opened the end of June. We have committed to a grand opening through July at 50% off the regular price of $6. We are quite busy (dry weather), and have positive comments from customers. We budgeted 5k for the marketing including newspaper, direct mail and radio remote, as well as on location signage. We are attending 60-80 hrs a week during this time, 40 after the GO. So far so good!
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Ric
Cantree Member
Thanks Mark,
I am going to plan a visit in the near future.
I am going to plan a visit in the near future.
