Supersaver low pressure questions

[WashFixer]

So I've got a JC supersaver and I'm getting little or no presoak or wax out of the guns. I can pull the chemical lines off at the solenoids and I have chemical coming out there when I turn it on, but it's like the cat pumps aren't sucking the chemical into the line?
Am I correct in thinking the cat pump is supposed to create enough suction to pull the chemical into the stream to the gun?

 

[MEP001]

No, the wax is gravity-fed. If the soap works, the wax should too,

You have a leak that's getting on the wiring. That will make the plug-in wire connections corrode. Fix the leak and clean the connections, then see if the solenoid coils are energizing by holding a screwdriver over them. You will feel a slight magnetic pull.

Some waxes will cause the plunger seals to swell and keep the solenoids from opening.

 

[WashFixer]

The solenoids are working, I pulled the line off the solenoid one at a time and turn the wax on on the bay door and wax comes out like it should, but when I hook the line back up I don't get wax out of the gun

 

[slash007]

Is this a new issue? Both functions are high pressure, so I had to up the chemical tip on mine since it gets diluted so much.

 

[Blanco]

Start by checking what position the ball valves under your holding tank are in for each bay. They should be halfway open.

Like Slash said, Is this a new issue? Did you recently change chemicals?

 

[MEP001]

There may be a problem with the wax in the tank.

 

[WashFixer]

It is an issue that wasn't there before, I'll check those ball valves under the tank, maybe they got opened all the way. That would be a cool fix. I'll also ask if they switched chemicals recently

 

[MEP001]

Don't just close the ball valves halfway, you need to run the pump with the trigger pulled and adjust the valves so the pump is running smooth and quiet without cavitation on soap but the valves are closed to the point you hear the rattling and open just enough to smooth out.

There's probably something wrong with the wax in the tank if it's drawing soap. The two products enter at the same tee below the ball valve.

 

[OurTown]

This is where flow meters on the chemical feed lines come in handy.

 

[MEP001]

This is where flow meters on the chemical feed lines come in handy.

Just as handy as looking in the tank and seeing if it's just water.

 

[OurTown]

Just as handy as looking in the tank and seeing if it's just water.

I thought that was a given. I'm only talking about the feed lines from the tank to the pump inlet. Without flow meters you are pretty much in the dark on whether it is pulling or not. Soap is easy to see in the bay but some waxes are more difficult to see and smell.

 

[MEP001]

I thought that was a given. I'm only talking about the feed lines from the tank to the pump inlet. Without flow meters you are pretty much in the dark on whether it is pulling or not. Soap is easy to see in the bay but some waxes are more difficult to see and smell.

FWIW the way I plumb pumps, if I'm not getting wax it can only be because it's too diluted, the solenoid isn't energizing, or the plunger seats have swelled. The Coleman Super Saver stands are similar enough that if you're getting soap in the bays, you should also get wax unless one of the same issues happens.

 

[OurTown]

FWIW the way I plumb pumps, if I'm not getting wax it can only be because it's too diluted, the solenoid isn't energizing, or the plunger seats have swelled. The Coleman Super Saver stands are similar enough that if you're getting soap in the bays, you should also get wax unless one of the same issues happens.

1/2" ID suction hoses instead of 3/4" and adjusting with ball valve?

 

[Blanco]

Don't just close the ball valves halfway, you need to run the pump with the trigger pulled and adjust the valves so the pump is running smooth and quiet without cavitation on soap but the valves are closed to the point you hear the rattling and open just enough to smooth out.

There's probably something wrong with the wax in the tank if it's drawing soap. The two products enter at the same tee below the ball valve.

I was giving him somewhere to start since he also said his presoak is not working.

Yes of course you have to adjust the ball valves per bay but he could easily put an eye on them to see if there fully open or about half closed.

He also never said if his soap is working or not.

Soap, Wax, and Presoak go into a cross not a tee at the bottom of the ball valves. If he’s having an issue with 2 or more of those products. That’s the first place you should start to look at.

 

[cantbreak80]

1/2" ID suction hoses instead of 3/4" and adjusting with ball valve?

That's my technique. No ball valve adjustment required.

 

[Greg Pack]

So the ball valve issue has been discussed. Another thing most new owners don't realize is that you have to mix chemical in the hydrominder tanks much stronger than you think. It's being drawn into a water stream and is is further diluted probably 90%. It's common for me to use red, white, or blue hydro tips on presoak and a somewhere between a red and green tip on waxes, depending on product.

I do not care for their medium pressure presoak setup at all. Change over time is ridiculously long and the product is too diluted to strip road film. I intend to change mine to a low pressure application.

Another thing to consider is if using a corrosive presoak those solenoids will eventually corrode and start leaking. Thos fittings are chrome plated brass and will eventually also start leaking. Both may last several years though.

 

[MEP001]

1/2" ID suction hoses instead of 3/4" and adjusting with ball valve?

That's my technique. No ball valve adjustment required.

Same. I use 1/2" hose with push-lock barbs, no clamps needed, and a flare union at the pump for quick replacement of the check valve. Along with this ball valve, there's enough restriction for the pump to pull soap and wax without throttling the ball valve.

Kleen-Rite 944-430 | Brass Inline Check Valve | 1/2in. F x F

This resilient disc check valve is not lead free. It is not for use on potable applications.

www.kleen-ritecorp.com

I use 3/8" tubing from the soap/wax solenoids to the pumps so the solenoid orifice is the restriction, and everything pulls chemical evenly.

 

[WashFixer]

Thanks for your input everyone, I understand the setup much more now, it turns out I had a couple issues. I started by closing the valves a touch more but then I was getting too much soap and some chatter from the pumps so I put that back.
The presoak was not mixing strong enough so I swapped tips and got that working right again, same chemical so that one is a bit of a mystery but it's working now so oh well.
The wax had a foot valve go bad and got diluted with water so it wasn't mixing strong enough so I swapped to a new barrel and not that's good too.
Thanks for your help guys!

 

[MEP001]

Put a zip tie tight around the foot valve barb in case it's leaking by there.

The presoak feeds in the same way as the soap and the wax, and the solenoid on the outlet of the pump reduces the pressure when presoak is selected. Even if the same soap is used for high pressure and presoak, the presoak should be stronger when it hits the car than the soap.

 

[Greg Pack]

The super saver doesn't have siphon breakers on their hydrominders. You should put a small hole in the disharge hose above the surface of the chemical. This will minimize the dilution problem if you have a foot valve go bad.