I can't seem to get the cars dry. No matter what I seem to do. It looks like I get good water break from the drying agent, but when the blowers start to shed the water off there seems to be tiny drops of water that act like its super glued to the vehicle. We start the wash process with a high ph pre-soak, ftb mitter a neutral ph foam then a wrap, a low ph foam, another wrap a ftb mitter another low ph foam a wrap, then high pressure, a side to side mitter drying agent spot free water then blowers. Any suggestions?
Surface Tension
- Thread starter autospa
- Start date
Water Tension
I don't seem to be able to get a dry car. I seem to be getting good break from the drying agent. But once the blowers start to shed the water off there are small drops of water that seem to be super glued to the car. Any suggestions?
I don't seem to be able to get a dry car. I seem to be getting good break from the drying agent. But once the blowers start to shed the water off there are small drops of water that seem to be super glued to the car. Any suggestions?
Earl Weiss
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There are millions of ideas out there. Need more info on your setup.
Possibilities include:
Dryer before first fresh water rinse - Then Fresh water rinse 12' Space then Drying Agent - 12 Inches Space then Setting arch - 12 inches Space and another dryer - 20 feet of Drip space and another Dryer (Center Top) - Mutiple arches thereafter with more dryers and More HP and Some with heat, - Flippping top nozzles. Wipe - O Matic, or other rotating material wiper.
Your limited by the size of your tunnel, Size of your wallet, and size of your revenue stream.
I have always found problems with drying is a difficult problem to solve because of the many factors involved. Sometimes it is the products you are using in the wash process that causes the problem. Sometimes it is a water quality issue. Sometimes it is the drying agent itself and sometimes it is a matter of having the proper dilution ratio.
Your set up seems to be good. My first guess would be that there is a problem with the drying agent itself. First you need to find out what the surface alkalinity is before the drying agent is applied. It should be either neutral or slightly acidic for the best drying results. Also make sure that you are using the right drying agent. There are two basic types. One causes the water to "puddle" so the water falls off the vehicle. It is normally used in self service washes or places where there is no dryer. The other causes the water to bead into droplets so the water can be blown off. You said the water is breaking which does not really tell which type of drying agent you are using .
Another possible problem is that drying agents are the only product that has a "window". Use too little or too much and it doesn't work well. You need to make sure you have it at the proper dilution ratio. However there could also be a problem with the water quality if you are using reclaim or the spot free rinse which tends to break down the surface tension that would also cause the problem. As you can see it might be as simple as the drying agent itself or something else in the wash process. If you have a chemical rep working with you consult with him as well.
Your set up seems to be good. My first guess would be that there is a problem with the drying agent itself. First you need to find out what the surface alkalinity is before the drying agent is applied. It should be either neutral or slightly acidic for the best drying results. Also make sure that you are using the right drying agent. There are two basic types. One causes the water to "puddle" so the water falls off the vehicle. It is normally used in self service washes or places where there is no dryer. The other causes the water to bead into droplets so the water can be blown off. You said the water is breaking which does not really tell which type of drying agent you are using .
Another possible problem is that drying agents are the only product that has a "window". Use too little or too much and it doesn't work well. You need to make sure you have it at the proper dilution ratio. However there could also be a problem with the water quality if you are using reclaim or the spot free rinse which tends to break down the surface tension that would also cause the problem. As you can see it might be as simple as the drying agent itself or something else in the wash process. If you have a chemical rep working with you consult with him as well.
AppleExpress
carwash newbie
I know how you feel autospa. Because of my tunnel size i only have about 6ft of drip space. This has become a big issue for me because it doesnt allow my drying agent the time to actually work. I have to run a 650:1 ratio to get a nicely dried car, and at that rate im using about 100+ mil of drying agent per car... just cant afford to do that. so my vehicles are coming out wet.
AppleExpress
carwash newbie
rph- Time is also a factor with the drying agents. Example: my tunnel is only 90ft, and because of the way it was set-up, im left with only 6 ft of drip space between the drying agent/spotfree to the blowers. Im considering slowing down the timing of my system because as of right now, my first blower kicks on while the vehicles are still under the spot free. all 5 blowers are spun up around the time the drying agent cuts out. i know this is a huge problem. just not sure how to fix it yet.
This is a common problem with the new mini tunnels and short tunnels. What type of tri foams and protectant are you using? If your blowers are coming out that soon it could be the real culprit. As you stated, drying agents need some time to work and the combination of the speed of your conveyor and the short time before the blower comes on could be causing the misting of the water. A short drip space makes things difficult and slowing down the conveyor should help.
AppleExpress
carwash newbie
well im still learning about the chemicals that im using, but they are a low ph conditioner. Currently though i only have red and blue. my yellow is down due to a bad flowjet.... since taking over this carwash in August (first time ive ever run one) it has been nothing but headaches... jammed rollers, bad flowjets, wet vehicles, ect... you name it, im having problems.... i cant even use my air door at the exit because of a timing issue with it (had a vehicle get pushed through it because it didnt open and my employee wasnt paying attention) Im slowly getting problems solved, but when i took over, i was told it had no issues, and was ready for me to start marketing for more buisness.... yeah right! lol. oh and ive had 5 flowjets go bad in less than 2 months... nothing but headaches.
You might want to try foaming clear coat protectants in your tri foams. They don't produce quite as much foam as conditioners but they will assist drying. I still think part of the problem is the blowers coming on so soon.
AppleExpress
carwash newbie
I think the blowers are the biggest issue as well. i will look into the foaming clearcoat option as well though. Currently we are using lustra as our clearcoat option and it comes on during the spotfree rinse, just after sealerwax is applied.
You might want to see if you can program the wash to not put on sealer (I assume you are talking about your drying agent) when someone gets the protectant as well. Overloading the surface with both those products in such a short space may also be a contributing factor but I doubt the whole problem. Have you discussed this with your chemical supplier? Since the problem with the blowers is one of space, it seems that there must be an application that can solve or mediate the problem.
AppleExpress
carwash newbie
actually my system has 3 products... we have a drying agent, a sealer wax, and a clearcoat... our basic wash only gets the drying agent and our deluxe wash gets the sealer wax and clearcoat, no drying agent as the clearcoat we use does have the same properties as a drying agent. our deluxe washes do come out slightly drier than a basic wash, however they are all fairly wet still.
I don't see a need for both sealer wax and clear coat protectant. It is a redundancy. Years ago operators used to use what was called a cheater wax that helped drying.
One other thought. The new super sealants are excellent drying agents. I have seen some use that instead of a drying agent highly diluted with no rinse afterwards. The cost actually comes out fairly close depending on how much it is diluted and what you have to pay for the super sealant..
One other thought. The new super sealants are excellent drying agents. I have seen some use that instead of a drying agent highly diluted with no rinse afterwards. The cost actually comes out fairly close depending on how much it is diluted and what you have to pay for the super sealant..
AppleExpress
carwash newbie
From what i can gather on the chemical end im using is that the clear coat protectant im using is more or less a just a gloss finish that also incorporates a BDR. But ive always felt since taking over that it was redundant using both that and a sealer wax. unfortunately ive recently learned why im having alot of problems with my system... it was never professionaly installed. My previous service manager ordered everything himself and basically set it up over the course of a month without speaking to experts about distances between wraps and applicators and so on. Hence why i only have 6ft of drip space, when i could be maximizing the tunnel and getting closer to 10-12ft.
From what you described in your first post I thought you had too much equipment for a 90 foot conveyor. Do you have a distributor near you that might be able to help you reconfigure? I would also question a chemical rep that would allow you to use both a sealer and clear coat protectant since they are basically the same product unless the sealer is a super sealant. Even then they should not both be applied in the same wash. Sounds like you might need to find local guy you can trust to help you out.
AppleExpress
carwash newbie
Aint that the truth autospa, Semper Fi.
Mep- no all of my pumps are santoprene. I had 3 pumps go bad in one week. first on my fragrence, then on my wheel cleaner, and finally on my yellow triple foam. i replaced all three and my triple foam still didnt work... turns out the new pump was bad, so i put my 4th pump on it and presto, worked....for 3 weeks. now yellow triple foam is bad again. only thing i can figure is that being it is the first pump in the air line, condensation is going directly to it and destroying it. (our compressors dont have a dryer...it burned up because of wrong placement long before i came into the company)
RPH- No distributor near me, other than the company who is handling my maintanence. They seem to be a legit company, i just switched to them this month, but i am planning to call sonnys directly and seeing if i can find out how my system should be setup. I also plan on having a chat with my chemical supplier tomorrow because after some research i did tonight i found that the sealer wax im using is a cationic while my triple foams are anionic. so when apllied together the sealer wax dissolves the triple foam, essentially striping the polish that was just applied. from my understanding, good triple foams should be cationic as well, cheaper products are anionic.
Mep- no all of my pumps are santoprene. I had 3 pumps go bad in one week. first on my fragrence, then on my wheel cleaner, and finally on my yellow triple foam. i replaced all three and my triple foam still didnt work... turns out the new pump was bad, so i put my 4th pump on it and presto, worked....for 3 weeks. now yellow triple foam is bad again. only thing i can figure is that being it is the first pump in the air line, condensation is going directly to it and destroying it. (our compressors dont have a dryer...it burned up because of wrong placement long before i came into the company)
RPH- No distributor near me, other than the company who is handling my maintanence. They seem to be a legit company, i just switched to them this month, but i am planning to call sonnys directly and seeing if i can find out how my system should be setup. I also plan on having a chat with my chemical supplier tomorrow because after some research i did tonight i found that the sealer wax im using is a cationic while my triple foams are anionic. so when apllied together the sealer wax dissolves the triple foam, essentially striping the polish that was just applied. from my understanding, good triple foams should be cationic as well, cheaper products are anionic.
MEP001
Well-known member
DiamondWash
Well-known member
Is this your wash? http://www.applecarwashexpress.com/ if so there is a video on the site of the tunnel in action.
