Tap readers

[HCCW]

Guys.
Does ANYONE know of a tap system that has the following features:

1). My car wash name shows next to the charge on people’s statements.

2). I get to pick my own processor.

3.). The timer counts up when a card is tapped until the customer presses stop.

4). The pre-authorization amount is set by ME. My customers are not going to be ok with a $17.50 “hold” when they only wash for $4.00.

5.). The system has the capability to do gift cards and fleet cards - and those cards work in everything at the card wash. They put $100 on their card, they can spend it on anything they want.

I am at my wits end.

 

[OurTown]

Have you looked at Wash Card? What are you using now that has you at your wits end and why?

 

[HCCW]

Washcard does exactly one of the 5 things I listed (#3). We currently use washgear - going on 18 years I believe - and their product has been AMAZING. Now, with mag strips getting ready to be a thing of the past in the next couple years, we need to move to tap readers. I haven’t found any companies that produce tap readers that even come close to the system I’ve got now. I’m so spoiled with Washgear. I hope they come out with a tap system soon

 

[Zal]

I have washgear in one of my locations. Works great but definitely not up to date. I also realize Washgear is a very small company. I hope they read this.

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

HCCW, I strongly agree.
I'd add 2 more requirements:
- ability to track timestamp and "device #" on every transaction so I know when & where the charge came from
- ability to Stop the transaction through a separate button, or a prox sensor, or some other trigger (not critical but VERY nice to have)

 

[HCCW]

								HCCW, I strongly agree. I'd add 2 more requirements: - ability to track timestamp and "device #" on every transaction so I know when & where the charge came from - ability to Stop the transaction through a separate button, or a prox sensor, or some other trigger (not critical but VERY nice to have) Holy crap. You mean there are systems out there that you can’t see what time the customer washed and what bay the customer was in? I would die. With Washgear I can see eeeeeverything. It is the easiest, most user friendly system ever. And I have never even thought about a kill switch on my end - but now that you mention it, that would be useful.

 

[Roz]

Guys.
Does ANYONE know of a tap system that has the following features:

So I have some issues with WorldPay however.....

1). My car wash name shows next to the charge on people’s statements.

the pending and posted transactions use the wash name

2). I get to pick my own processor.

Have not found much here. ICS and Hamilton give you a choice of two processors but all equipment manufacturers are locking customers into specific processors so they can get a kickback on the higher than necessary fees.

3.). The timer counts up when a card is tapped until the customer presses stop.

Many use the count up approach (cryptoPay, DAN are the ones we use)

4). The pre-authorization amount is set by ME. My customers are not going to be ok with a $17.50 “hold” when they only wash for $4.00.

So we posted a message on all equipment educating people on the difference between Pending and Posted charges. Some companies allow you to call to request a lower credit hold amount - I believe you can call WorldPay to make such a request. That being said the problem would be solved if the Posted transaction did not take forever (24-48 hours). Gas stations often place a $100 credit hold on your CC but they post the real transaction quickly. No idea why we are held to a terrible standard other than we have no way to switch processors. The float must generate a lot of $$$ for our processors.

5.). The system has the capability to do gift cards and fleet cards - and those cards work in everything at the card wash. They put $100 on their card, they can spend it on anything they want.

You can get these cards for CryptoPay and ICS machines.

I am at my wits end.

I understand your pain, very valid issues. Does not appear to be changing anytime soon in our industry as every new clever invention seems to create some sort of financial grab for our revenue. Very shortsighted approach IMO as the first to make a solid payment solution with reasonable fees and real customer service could possibly take over the payment processing space. Maybe Square or Toast will be the ones to upend our industry - would love to see it?

 

[DavidM]

My WashCard system does all of those things except it doesn't accept tap, only mag stripe. Did they take away all of those features in the conversion to tap and app?

 

[Car_Wash_Guy]

My WashCard system does all of those things except it doesn't accept tap, only mag stripe. Did they take away all of those features in the conversion to tap and app?

They do have tap now.

 

[DavidM]

They do have tap now.

Yeah, I'm aware of their tap solution, I'm more curious as to whether or not it has changed so much that what OP said is true, that it only offers one of his 5 criteria. My current WashCard system meets everything asked for in this thread but has other issues for me. I'm not sure I want to upgrade with WashCard or move to another solution.

David

 

[Car_Wash_Guy]

Yeah, I'm aware of their tap solution, I'm more curious as to whether or not it has changed so much that what OP said is true, that it only offers one of his 5 criteria. My current WashCard system meets everything asked for in this thread but has other issues for me. I'm not sure I want to upgrade with WashCard or move to another solution.

David

I’ve had WashCard since I bought my wash in 2015. Outside of a few technical issues along the way they’ve been absolutely fantastic to work with. They produce a great product and offer exceptional service in my opinion.

I like you am looking at upgrading and as much as I love the WashCard system I’m looking for also something that’s a bit simpler in regards to overall complexity.

Not sure something like that exists out there since we’re such a small segment within the industry.

With that said, when I’m ready to do my upgrade, WashCard is pretty high up on the list. I think, as far as innovations within the self-serve industry, there are by far one of the best.

 

[HCCW]

Great post, thank you!

I actually had worldpay for one year (I didn’t pick them, my processor I loved was bought out after I had used them for 15+ years) and it was a terrible experience. I won’t go into detail on the issues I went through but I ended up bailing. I now have had a GREAT guy -Jared from NC Payments - and he put me with Tsys and it’s been heaven for 3 years. Zero BS. They handle all the PCI, chargebacks are a snap, I love them. Plus he lowered my rate 1/2 a percent. I didn’t ask him to either, I just couldn’t take Worldpay anymore. All in were paying 4%, now we pay 3.5%. That’s it. No other fees. All these new systems I’m looking at want to rape me. They’ll claim the fees will be anywhere from 7-9% total, but I got a look at one actual operators sales and it was 11%. Holy crap.

I’ve wondered about how gas stations immediately release the hold amount and I’ve been told that they have such enormous sales that they can negotiate better. And their systems finalizes every transaction as soon as it’s done - hence the hold is over right away . Car washes batch their transactions and send them all through once a night. (I don’t know the accuracy of any of that, it’s just what I was told).
It seems to me when we set up Washgear we had a choice. We could batch and send all of our transactions through once a night which is cheap - or we could do what the gas stations do and send each one in as it completes which was more expensive. But the old brain isn’t what it used to be so who knows if that is accurate.

If Square or Toast or anyone would come in and make a system that does the five things I listed I would be PUMPED. Actually, everything I want a system to do, Washgear already does. I’ve got my fingers crossed that they will produce tap readers that are as fantastic and user friendly as their current system.

I wonder if we could get the self serve operators of the country to band together and push for a change? Maybe we could all sign on with a company that agrees to produce the product we want, guaranteeing them the financial return. Big win for both? I wonder if we could reach enough operators through this forum and maybe SSCWN? Better yet, what does a tiny booth at Vegas cost? I’d sit there sun up to sundown trying to get self serve operators to ban together to force a change. These equipment manufacturers are getting rich off of the backs of hard working car wash operators and they certainly don’t earn it. The operators have no good option. It feels like collusion. Like all of these equipment manufacturers got together and decided they could make a massive amount of money by all switching to “fee models”. It’s infuriating. The Dollar amount they will be pulling in from me is obscene. And for what? I will be getting FAR less features then I get from my current Washgear set up, yet I’ll be paying 2-3 times the fees.

 

[HCCW]

Yeah, I'm aware of their tap solution, I'm more curious as to whether or not it has changed so much that what OP said is true, that it only offers one of his 5 criteria. My current WashCard system meets everything asked for in this thread but has other issues for me. I'm not sure I want to upgrade with WashCard or move to another solution.

David

David, give them a call and ask them about those 5 criteria. Please post back here what you find out. I had Washcards original system starting 20+ years ago. It was a great product with great service. I’m sure their service is still great, their new product just has virtually none of the features I’m looking for and will cost 3 times what I’m paying monthly now.

 

[Dan kamsickas]

I wonder if we could get the self serve operators of the country to band together and push for a change? Maybe we could all sign on with a company that agrees to produce the product we want, guaranteeing them the financial return. Big win for both? I wonder if we could reach enough operators through this forum and maybe SSCWN?

We get a bit provincial in this industry because it takes up, in many cases, the majority of our waking hours. The reality is in the grand scheme of credit card processing, we're barely even a tiny part.

One of the main reasons we stepped away from having our own credit card system was when we were looking at a next generation of our Liberator system we looked at the cost of development and the year after year maintenance cost and unless we set it up to take a percentage of each transaction, the math just did not pencil out.

 

[HCCW]

I’ve had WashCard since I bought my wash in 2015. Outside of a few technical issues along the way they’ve been absolutely fantastic to work with. They produce a great product and offer exceptional service in my opinion.

I like you am looking at upgrading and as much as I love the WashCard system I’m looking for also something that’s a bit simpler in regards to overall complexity.

Not sure something like that exists out there since we’re such a small segment within the industry.

With that said, when I’m ready to do my upgrade, WashCard is pretty high up on the list. I think, as far as innovations within the self-serve industry, there are by far one of the best.

The last time I had a Washcard system was from 99-06, so of course it doesn’t compare to todays systems. I’m curious how different the system you have been running since 2015 is from what they are currently marketing (the Tap and App). If you look back at my original post, does it do the 5 criteria I listed? If it does, I’m wondering why they have changed.
(Oh, and do you currently pay fees to Washcard? I have never paid a single penny from my sales to Washgear in 18 years)

 

[HCCW]

We get a bit provincial in this industry because it takes up, in many cases, the majority of our waking hours. The reality is in the grand scheme of credit card processing, we're barely even a tiny part.

One of the main reasons we stepped away from having our own credit card system was when we were looking at a next generation of our Liberator system we looked at the cost of development and the year after year maintenance cost and unless we set it up to take a percentage of each transaction, the math just did not pencil out.

Thank you for stepping into the fray! Insight like this is extremely helpful. I know nothing about your industry, so from my perspective it looks like a cash grab. Please chime in anytime you can help educate us self serve operators. I’ve been told many times over the years by our processors that we are minuscule. Definitely not like gas stations, or Walmart, Home Depot, McDonalds…

(Update, apparently I can’t read. You already said in your post that you don’t make CC systems)
I see you are from GinSan. Does GinSan make credit card acceptance gear? I know you make great car wash equipment. I’ve looked at it before when I considered building a fourth location. Then I slap myself and stop that foolish notion.

 

[Dan kamsickas]

Thank you for stepping into the fray! Insight like this is extremely helpful. I know nothing about your industry, so from my perspective it looks like a cash grab. Please chime in anytime you can help educate us self serve operators. I’ve been told many times over the years by our processors that we are minuscule. Definitely not like gas stations, or Walmart, Home Depot, McDonalds…

I see you are from GinSan. Does GinSan make credit card acceptance gear? I know you make great car wash equipment. I’ve looked at it before when I considered building a fourth location. Then I slap myself and stop that foolish notion.

We are minuscule. Near our office is a retail corridor. In a row are: Sams Club, Walmart, and Menards with several smaller places on their out lots. You are probably looking at, at least, 200 credit card points of sale in about a 2 block stretch. I would bet that the average Walmart does more credit card transactions in a day then your typical self serve does in 6 months.

We had our own credit card system, the Liberator System, for about 10 years. We end of life cycled the product around 2015. We really needed to have a next generation because of the changes to how processing works in the background, how the consumer expects the process to work, and what the expectations of the wash operator were. After really looking at where it was going we were looking at least a low six figure development costs and probably a slightly less but similar year to year "maintenance" cost. The cost that wash owners were really willing to spend for the hardware meant that we would either have to have 90+% of the hardware market every year or get a percentage of every transaction. With several other competitors in the market, getting 95% was never going to happen. Getting a percentage of the transaction while still allowing the wash owner multiple choices of processor was another kettle of fish.

Not to bash anyone, but from time to time I see people in this industry and just in general say "Someone should develop......and people would be willing to pay for it" That sounds really good but product development is like sausage. You like the end result but you probably don't want to watch it being made. It's, as a rule, not as simple and far more expensive, than the average person realizes.

 

[HCCW]

That was epic

We are minuscule. Near our office is a retail corridor. In a row are: Sams Club, Walmart, and Menards with several smaller places on their out lots. You are probably looking at, at least, 200 credit card points of sale in about a 2 block stretch. I would bet that the average Walmart does more credit card transactions in a day then your typical self serve does in 6 months.

We had our own credit card system, the Liberator System, for about 10 years. We end of life cycled the product around 2015. We really needed to have a next generation because of the changes to how processing works in the background, how the consumer expects the process to work, and what the expectations of the wash operator were. After really looking at where it was going we were looking at least a low six figure development costs and probably a slightly less but similar year to year "maintenance" cost. The cost that wash owners were really willing to spend for the hardware meant that we would either have to have 90+% of the hardware market every year or get a percentage of every transaction. With several other competitors in the market, getting 95% was never going to happen. Getting a percentage of the transaction while still allowing the wash owner multiple choices of processor was another kettle of fish.

Not to bash anyone, but from time to time I see people in this industry and just in general say "Someone should develop......and people would be willing to pay for it" That sounds really good but product development is like sausage. You like the end result but you probably don't want to watch it being made. It's, as a rule, not as simple and far more expensive, than the average person realizes.

We are minuscule. Near our office is a retail corridor. In a row are: Sams Club, Walmart, and Menards with several smaller places on their out lots. You are probably looking at, at least, 200 credit card points of sale in about a 2 block stretch. I would bet that the average Walmart does more credit card transactions in a day then your typical self serve does in 6 months.

We had our own credit card system, the Liberator System, for about 10 years. We end of life cycled the product around 2015. We really needed to have a next generation because of the changes to how processing works in the background, how the consumer expects the process to work, and what the expectations of the wash operator were. After really looking at where it was going we were looking at least a low six figure development costs and probably a slightly less but similar year to year "maintenance" cost. The cost that wash owners were really willing to spend for the hardware meant that we would either have to have 90+% of the hardware market every year or get a percentage of every transaction. With several other competitors in the market, getting 95% was never going to happen. Getting a percentage of the transaction while still allowing the wash owner multiple choices of processor was another kettle of fish.

Not to bash anyone, but from time to time I see people in this industry and just in general say "Someone should develop......and people would be willing to pay for it" That sounds really good but product development is like sausage. You like the end result but you probably don't want to watch it being made. It's, as a rule, not as simple and far more expensive, than the average person realizes.

That was so educational. Thank you for that. And I apologize for not reading your original post closer where you already stated you had ended that line. I am definitely clinging to the “old ways” because they were so user friendly and easy to operate. Change is HARD. It gives a whole different perspective when the people that produce the products actually explain why they changed it. Doesn’t feel like they are pulling the rug out from under us for no reason then.

 

[MEP001]

Not to bash anyone, but from time to time I see people in this industry and just in general say "Someone should develop......and people would be willing to pay for it" That sounds really good but product development is like sausage. You like the end result but you probably don't want to watch it being made.

I make my own sausage because I want to know what goes into it, but the development cost is pretty low.

 

[HCCW]

I make my own sausage because I want to know what goes into it, but the development cost is pretty low.

You really make your own sausage? I’m lazy. Jimmy Dean.