The ends on most 4 x 40 RO Membranes???

[mjwalsh]

We took out the Cellulose Acetate (CA) 4 x 40 Membrane from our Specialty Equipment RO unit. It has an open hole on both ends which I consider as female on both ends.

We assumed that there was standard in the RO industry for 4 x 40 Membranes that they would all have the same type of ends as the CA membranes the same size that we have ordered outside of car wash suppliers because car wash suppliers tend to all sell the TFC membranes. We just installed the brand new charcoal filter tank etc as mentioned in a previous post.

It is relating to a Hydron BW-4040 Reverse Osmosis Membrane High Performance Commercial - 2400 GPD × 1. We have not installed the membrane but have it in front of us. Based on a pre-sales phone call to Hydronix & their recommended distributor; I had the understanding that all 4 x 40 membranes install the same way with ends that just fit etc. ... without any surprise difficulties into their stainless steel housings.

Any fellow car washer seen a 4 x 40 membrane have ends that had male ends instead of female ends? I am hoping there is a workaround somehow so we do not have to send the not installed yet membrane back to the distributor etc.

We are waiting for a call back from both Hydronix & their distributor... in the meantime we are hoping one of you have had a similar experience & found a work-around that you can share wit the rest of us!

 

[soonermajic]

I saw that, MxM, about 8/9 yrs ago @ a very old carwash.

 

[mjwalsh]

Here are 2 pics that show hopefully the difference enough of the end connecting portions of the 4 x 40 membranes.

 

[mjwalsh]

Attached is the OEM Minnesota based OSMONICS document page.

 

[MEP001]

Time for a new membrane housing.

 

[Jsshac]

Purclean uses membranes like the new one you have I don’t know if they would fit

 

[mac]

You do have to be careful when inserting the new membrane. It has a a cup seal on one end. You must slide the membrane in so the seal doesn’t ride up.

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

Most 4" membranes have male ends, and most housings for the membranes have mating female "ports."

Russ

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

You said " We just installed the brand new charcoal filter tank etc as mentioned in a previous post. "

If you are dechlorinating the feedwater to your RO, then you should not be using CA membranes. Instead you should be using the much more common TFC membranes.

If you have specific questions we are also a Hydronix distributor and can get answers for you. Feel free to PM me.

Russ

 

[mjwalsh]

Thanks Russ we appreciate your input! We also made sure we buffered the pH for the CA since 1987 & have eliminated that & now have the charcoal filter installed. It seems like the CA membranes are less common & possibly more expensive. It looks like the wisest move will be to invest in a brand new compatible vessel with the more common car wash industry 4x40 TFC with male ends. Hopefully, we will get this resolved by the end of next week.

Any forum members have a "4x40 vessel only"l that they can recommend for us to swap out??? It looks like we have the ability to get a TriSEP TFC membrane with identical to the ends that we need for existing Osmonics Vessel ... but not sure on shipment date &/or even cost at this point & this being weekend?

How much danger is there if we leave our 5 micron sediment pre-filter BEFORE the Charcoal filter or it is a must to have it after the charcoal filter & just before the TFC membrane???

 

[MEP001]

Any forum members have a "4x40 vessel only"l that they can recommend for us to swap out???

Housing U-Pin Style | Applied Membranes | PV4040SSAU-316

Applied Membranes 316 SS pressure vessels for housing 4040 membrane elements offer high operating pressure. Safer and more reliable than PVC.

www.kleen-ritecorp.com

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

Especially if you are removing chlorine (and or chloramine) PRIOR to the membrane, you'd want to go with a TFC element rather than CA.

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

How much danger is there if we leave our 5 micron sediment pre-filter BEFORE the Charcoal filter or it is a must to have it after the charcoal filter & just before the TFC membrane???

Hopefully your carbon tank is a backwashing unit? If it is, than although a sediment filter before the carbon tank doesn't do any harm, it is probably not necessary.

Having a sediment filter (5 micron or smaller) after the carbon and before the membrane(s) is necessary.

Russ

 

[mjwalsh]

Any suggestions on possibly repurposing he Osmonics 4" x 40" extra heavy duty (quality constructed) Stainless Steel Osmonics Vessel?

Our city has lowered the pH of its water so maybe the pH buffering process can be eliminated.

Charcoal filter is not needed for CA ... that is advantage to a CA membrane.

Like I said I did find a reputable seller ... but no delivery date or cost quote at this point in time ... that is 100% compatible with our existing Osmonics Vessel.

 

[mjwalsh]

Hopefully your carbon tank is a backwashing unit? If it is, than although a sediment filter before the carbon tank doesn't do any harm, it is probably not necessary.

Having a sediment filter (5 micron or smaller) after the carbon and before the membrane(s) is necessary.

Russ

The carbon tank is as said in a previous post .... definitely BACKWASHING capable.

We did rearrange our piping-hoses so the 5 micron pre-filter is AFTER our brand new charcoal filter & just before the still old CA membrane. The brand new TFC membrane will hopefully be completely installed before the end of the day.

Our question is: Is it normal for the 5 micron pre-filter to become completely BLACK when we look through its clear polycarbonate housing???

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

Is it normal? No.

Why might it happen?
*If you have a brand new carbon tank or a newly re-bedded carbon tank and it was not rinsed up properly - you could load a downstream filter for sure.
*If the sediment filter was left in too long it could become clogged with whatever sediment is present in the water.

Sounds like it is time for a filter change. The sediment filter did what you asked it to do.

Russ

 

[mjwalsh]

Thanks Russ for your response.

We know we are within water pressure specs etc so it probably has something to do with the charcoal tank being brand new & not 100% rinsed etc. The charcoal was pre-installed from the company we bought it from. We just had to mount the Fleck manual backflush scheduler controller on top of the brand new tank.

We do not have the "more to car wash standards" ends Hydronix membrane installed yet in your brand new housing. The Hydronix membrane had come with the no o'ring on the downstream of its arrow of the 4x40 membrane. So one side does not have an o'ring ... not to be confused with the four o'rings that come with the stainless steel housing for the end caps etc.

We will be studying the flow directions & probably do the actual install tomorrow morning early. We have on the Specialty-Osmonics machine a concentrate pressure adjusting valves with pressure gauges to flush the CA membrane ... which at this point we do not totally understand what was going on there. Periodically I would make it so way more "reject water" would flow for some type of flushing???

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

That is really a concentrate flow valve. With a 4" diameter membrane go no lower than 3 gpm on the concentrate.

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

If you have proper pretreatment, especially a water softener, there is limited utility to open that valve all the way to flush the membrane - unless you do it frequently and routinely.

 

[MEP001]

The Hydronix membrane had come with the no o'ring on the downstream of its arrow of the 4x40 membrane. So one side does not have an o'ring ... not to be confused with the four o'rings that come with the stainless steel housing for the end caps etc.

Are you referring to the V-seal on one end of the membrane?