The ends on most 4 x 40 RO Membranes???

[mjwalsh]

Are you referring to the V-seal on one end of the membrane?

On the below pic of the brand new membrane through the shipping plastic you can see a groove but no seal inside of the groove ... unlike the other end which as some kind of an o'ring ... possibly the V-seal you are referring to?

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

What you're talking about is called a BRINE SEAL. Probably up at the other end of the membrane than shown in the pic

 

[Greg Pack]

Thats normal, seal is only on one end.

 

[mjwalsh]

It looks like I will be making a trip within our little city right now... to prepare for tomorrow ... to both Ace Hardware & Lowes with a sample of our in stock 3/8" ID - 1/2" OD poly tubing just in case the original plastic compression fittings will need replacing & actual rerouting since the previous Specialty-Osmonics outer SS membrane housing has 2 elbows coming out of the sides vs the new replacement vessel having 2 NPT female on both ends which have to have for the most part the 3/8" ID - 1/2" OD poly tubing re-used &/or replaced with 100% brand new considering the Specialty-Osmonics RO machine was originally built in 1987 ... 35 years ago.

It seems like locally I previously had found some push lock fittings the correct size. Some poly might be slightly smaller to & from the relief & pressure setting dial.

Attached is a pic of top half of our system. Can anyone link the "most user easy to follow friendly" diagram of a more modern TFC system specific to the "RO Water Making" side of a self service Car Wash Spot Free System. It would be much appreciated if someone can take the time to post some quality sketches, diagrams &/or pics. Sometimes pics cast too many shadows &/or blocking etc.

Also included here is a pic of a very long snouted TonkaFlo brand stainless pump attached to a 1 HP Baldor vertically mounted motor. The pump may possibly be "multistage"pump???

 

[Greg Pack]

You may find something useful in here. A simple diagram of various configurations is around page 75

https://www.rainmandesal.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/dow-filmtec-sw30-manual.pdf

 

[mjwalsh]

You may find something useful in here. A simple diagram of various configurations is around page 75

https://www.rainmandesal.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/dow-filmtec-sw30-manual.pdf

Thanks Greg & others ... the more worthwhile understanding ...the better IMHO. We redid the tubing routing completion about 12 Noon today with the change-over. Hopefully, we are "out of the woods" on the most nitty gritty part of the installation ... based on the reading of our Pronto probes with its display that is immersed in the permeate as the permeate was being made. Hopefully the local push lock fittings - clear tubing will have no problem with the water pressures involved.

As a precaution in the event of some bizarre wild goof up ... that we screwed up the flow path ... we did some verifying with a proven earlier version of this TDS meter: https://www.isopurewater.com/produc...50vKl31ln2d0TOcN3WC4eHlORpkmrkghoCv_wQAvD_BwE ... we verified the fact that the reject water had over 100 times the TDS of the permeate water with the brand new Hydronix 40" x 4" TFC Membrane.

We flushed to the drain until the concentrate was no longer milky within the vertical flow device before putting any permeate in our 90 gallon tank. I am a bit confused as to what Russ said about maintaining at least 3 GPM via the "adjusting knob-pressure gauge" for the rate of reject water out & permeate rate etc??? On a up coming separate thread hopefully I will get some fresh comments about the perils of possibly recycling the reject water for our specific laundry-car n dog wash water supply piping somewhere somehow.

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

In schematic form, this is the needle valve you use to control the flow of concentrate. This valve is also referred to as an "adjustable flow restrictor."
Your RO system doesn't look like it is configured with Concentrate recycle plumbing, so just ignore that part of the schematic:





To relate the schematic to your system, here's the knob that controls the amount of concentrate, as shown in the left flow gauge:

 

[mjwalsh]

In schematic form, this is the needle valve you use to control the flow of concentrate. This valve is also referred to as an "adjustable flow restrictor."
Your RO system doesn't look like it is configured with Concentrate recycle plumbing, so just ignore that part of the schematic:

To relate the schematic to your system, here's the knob that controls the amount of concentrate, as shown in the left flow gauge:

I circled the what Osmonics calls a "relief valve" ... it appears that it most likely also serves as "Concentrate recycle"

 

[mjwalsh]

That is really a concentrate flow valve. With a 4" diameter membrane go no lower than 3 gpm on the concentrate.

There is a significant efficiency - quantity of "permeate" during tank fill TRADE-OFF with only 3 gpm. How compelling is it to have that amount of gpm since our pump can make it so there is way less concentrate & more permeate created. Does it mean slightly more TDS or is it more of a "long term life saving" for the specific membrane installed???

In the past I would run for the "pH buffered" CA membrane the >3 gpm "concentrate-reject" with the flow valve for maybe 5 minutes thinking that acted as a sort of extra flushing for the membrane ... increasing its life.

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

I don't think your relief valve is a recycle valve. If you had a recycle function you'd have a third flow gauge.

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

3 gpm is typically the minimum concentrate flow on a 4" membrane. Shortened membrane life will likely be the result if you routinely have less than that.

You have to do some adjustments on the concentrate valve and the adjustment screw/valve on your pump. If you have the system set correctly you should be at 3+ gpm on the concentrate, the desired pressure on the pressure gauge (your membrane is spec'ed at 225 psi), and the proper permeate flow (2400 gpd = 1.7 gpm).

Check your RO system manual to make sure it is set up to handle 225 psi. If not, there are 4040 TFC membranes that run at much lower pressures.

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

Here are three 4040 membranes, each rated at 2500 gpd that run at lower pressures:

150 psi: https://www.buckeyehydro.com/axeon-hf1-4040-ro-membrane-2-500-gpd/

100 psi: https://www.buckeyehydro.com/axeon-hf4-4040-ro-membrane-2500-gpd/

80 psi: https://www.buckeyehydro.com/axeon-hf5-4040-ro-membrane-2-500-gpd/

Russ

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

I circled the what Osmonics calls a "relief valve"

Osmonics is the manufacturer of your new membrane. They would have no idea what RO system you are installing their membrane in.

 

[mjwalsh]

Osmonics is the manufacturer of your new membrane. They would have no idea what RO system you are installing their membrane in.

The original RO system's documentation shows Osmonics all over it ... but you could be correct ... Specialty Futura Equipment manufacturing persons involved way back in 1987 might be the ones with more expertise on the specifics on their specific machine. The Mpls-St Paul manufacturer is no longer in business ... not sure if their handoff replacement USA distributor would be familiar enough. That is where Bill Pitzer's Car Wash Forum has proven to be a "life saver" to some extent!

 

[mjwalsh]

In schematic form, this is the needle valve you use to control the flow of concentrate. This valve is also referred to as an "adjustable flow restrictor."
Your RO system doesn't look like it is configured with Concentrate recycle plumbing, so just ignore that part of the schematic:
View attachment 6548
To relate the schematic to your system, here's the knob that controls the amount of concentrate, as shown in the left flow gauge:

Our setup has the relief valve in the place where you have the recycle valve on your schematic. I am assuming that what Specialty-Osmonics relief valve was - is basically like a car wash pump bypass valve that would vary the amount just by the nozzle-restriction out in the bay & the setting on the relief valve. So I could safely tweak that since it appears to have an adjustment on top.

The existing TonkaFlo Pump will go over 200 PSI based on turning the restriction knob & watching the up 300 PSI gauge. If I remember correctly Mep001 or other car wash forum member said a Procon Pump could generate similar sustained pressure to the RO membrane ... in the event the long snout "very expensive" original pump needs to be replaced.