Well it should be interesting to see how long this post lasts. My desire is that it generates intelligent dialogue about a serious subject. I would like to keep this discussion focused not on the religious beliefs which seem to be at the root of this, but to just take a simple look the the actual achievements of the Jews and the differing, but mostly muslim tribes, in the area. I do not have the footnotes for these but they are easily verified, sometimes even from the vaulted United Nations. Let's start with simple patents. You know those internationally recognized documents that verifies so and so from over there invented this. The number of patents awarded to Jewish people over the last 20 years or so are many, many time more than the entire mid east. I'm talkiing maybe 100 times more. OK another simple fact. How many times in the last 30 days has a non Jewish person blow themselves up along with innocent children? Now, how many Jews have done that? In Israel, any arab(I think) can become a citizen of Israel. Can any Jew get citizenship in a mostly muslim state? I could easily go on, but your eyeballs would start to glaze over. Just wanted to make the point that the people in the middle who are actually creating and thriving in the desert seem to be bad mouthed a lot. On my little portal to the world I have dealt with both Jewish operators and middle eastern operators. It hasn't even been close for me to decide which group seems to understand business better. Draw your own conclusions, but before you bash any of this, look real closely for factual errors or broad condemnation of any group. God (not Allah) bless you all.
The Jews
- Thread starter mac
- Start date
wash4me
Member
Thou Shall Prosper by Daniel Lapin is a really good read.
Reds
Member
MAC, you are spot on. Very good thread.- I agree with you 100%. Incidently I am neither Jewish nor Muslim.
slash007
Well-known member
So what do the achievements of the Jews have to do with the massacre they are inflicting on a daily basis in Gaza? Just today they bombed a U.N shelter and the U.N states that twice they gave them the coordinates to the shelter so that they would avoid it. And btw, Allah is just the Arabic word for God, same exact person.
I'm not Jewish or Muslim either and it is my understanding that Israel is defending itself from rocket attacks. They have stated they will cease fire as soon as the rockets stop coming into Israel. I also understand Hamas has twice stored weapons in a school.
Washmee
Fullservice Tunnel
If Hamas, the PLO and all the others stopped firing rockets at Israel and recognized their right to exist, there would be peace and a state for Palestinians. If Israel stopped defending itself, there would be no Israel.
Hamas uses people to protect their rockets, Israel uses rockets to protect their people. Collateral damage and death of Palestinians due from an Israeli rocket is the fault of Hamas and the Palestinians that support them, not the Israelis. What I can't understand is how American Jews drive German cars to the polls and overwhelmingly vote democrat.
Thank you all for the thoughtful comments. Well maybe not quite all. Slash 007 (you wouldn't happen to be the former Seattle Guy would you?) maybe you could help my feeble mind understand a few things. I have never been to that part of the world, so I may be lacking in some ways. From what I have read and seen reports on, the Palestinians strap explosives to their young children, and have them go into crowded places with Jews and blow themselves up, thereby killing as many as possible. I have seen the pictures that Palestinians place of their dearly departed blown up children that they place in their homes and businesses as an honorable example. The late, but surely faithful Saddam Hussein used to send $25,000 to the parents who let their kids be blown up as a reward. The schools in the Palestinian area teach their children that the Jews are descended from pigs and monkeys. It is in their charter which is recorder at the United Nations, that Israel should be destroyed and all of the Jews driven from the land or killed. So kind sir, if I am uninformed, please tell me otherwise. If Israel were to suddenly disappear, the entire region would degenerate into a nicely Sharia controlled region where women could be stoned to death and have their genitalia cut off. The women, who have to be mud ugly, would all have black sheets covering their bodies. And anyone not a true, devout Muslim, would either be driven out, taxed heavily, or simply executed. Ah yes, the religion of peace. Another thing that I seem to not understand is, if the great and noble Palestinians are so honor worthy, why has every other mid eastern country kicked their butts out? Inquiring minds want to know. Once we get those matters resolved, then maybe you can tell me how the great prophet justified marring a nine year old girl?
slash007
Well-known member
No, I am not the former Seattle Guy. You sir, are extremely ignorant and uninformed. I didn't post anymore in this thread previously because I didn't want to get into an extended dialog with you as it would be pointless to engage someone with your biased thinking. You really should do some digging and find the truth instead of just blindly believing whatever you have been reading.
Well thanks for that thoughtful rebuttal. So rather than enlightening us heathens or non believers, it's just easier to call us names. I was actually hoping that someone like you would be able to give a response that might get me or others to change my mind. Show me the facts that you seem privy to. If I have misstated something, please just let me know, and cite your sources. This stupid bloodshed has been going on now for what ? Two thousand years. And your contribution to peace is name calling. Do you think that any of us want to see this continue? What exactly would be your solution?
I.B. Washincars
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I don't see any name-calling, unless you classify "ignorant" as such. That's pretty tame and just his feeling that you are uninformed. Frankly, I felt this would get out of hand shortly after you posted and would disappear. I commend you guys for keeping it pretty civil.
Religion, politics, and motor oil will be debated until the end of time and no one will ever seem to change their opinion.
Religion, politics, and motor oil will be debated until the end of time and no one will ever seem to change their opinion.
MEP001
Well-known member
It always amuses me when someone is offended at being called ignorant. It only proves how ignorant they really are.
PaulLovesJamie
rural 5 bay SS
On that note I'd like to thank Bill P and now Jackson for allowing discussions of politics and religion here.
There are signs forbidding it in hunting camp, in bars, its discouraged in schools... pardon my french but WTH??? There is NO other topic that is more important to discuss, why on earth would we prohibit these discussions anywhere?? Maybe if we duked it out more privately we'd just bust each others noses then have a beer, and it wouldn't escalate to governments bombing each other.
So yeah I agree with IB, thanks for keeping it civil & maybe Jackson will continue to allow it.
slash007
Well-known member
I appreciate your post. The reason I didn't start defending my post and giving examples is because I knew that it would get out of hand quickly. You can tell from his post that there was a lot of built up anger and it he really wasn't looking for a reasonable discussion or to be enlightened. His mind was already made up no amount of responses from me would change them. I could be wrong and I almost posted a direct response to his allegations, but when he threw in the line at the end about the Prophet Mohammad (even if true, completely irrelevant to the conflict) it made it clear to me that it would be pointless to engage him.
Washmee
Fullservice Tunnel
Being reasonable or enlightened is a 2 way issue Slash. Other than the comment he made about Palestinian women being ugly, I don't see anything else that can't be proven to be true. Perhaps you should go ahead and enlighten the rest of us about the things in his post which are "ignorant" and "uninformed".
seattleguy
Member
Hey Mac - I don't know why I am the "former" Seattle Guy. I am still here. Not sure where you are coming from, but I agree with you on this thread. Why would you think otherwise?
seattleguy
Member
"This" stupid bloodshed hasn't been going on for 2000 years. It has been going on since Arabs attacked Israel after partition and statehood in '48.
Washmee
Fullservice Tunnel
If the UN hadn't created Israel after WW2, the land would still be controlled by Jordan, Egypt and Lebanon. There would be no arguments about a state for the made up Palestinians. In all of history,there has never been a country called Palestine. The Arabs and the Muslim world could easily find some room for a Palestinian state.
The poster is correct what has the 21st century European Jews achievements got to do with the genocide they are inflicting on innocent civilians , women and children.
Check history when Europe was in the Dark Ages the Arab World was in it's Renissance. The contributions to world science by the Arab world are enormous.
You don't read about them because the media in this country is controlled by whom?
Hamas is shooting rockets at Israel? Who says ? American media ,
Look at the published facts: Israeli causalties: 67 soldiers
Palestinians nearly 2,000 mostly civilians , women and children.
This is nothing but ethnic cleansing, genocide.
As long as Palestinians exist in the area the legitimate cry for a
" two state" solution will be there. Israel does not want a two state solution.
If you want a great read on the origins of this conflict read
"How Israel Was Formed...a chronological history of formation of the State if Israel by a NY clinical psychologist, Baylis Thomas. You have to read it with a bookmark in the footnotes because it is so well documented with explanatory footnotes.
For objective current writings you cans subscribe to a free newsletter that is punished in India called COUNTERCURRENTS, you will find it I informative on many current issues, not just the Arab-Israeli conflict.
I am not a Moslem, I am an American and a historian by education and strive for truth.
Check history when Europe was in the Dark Ages the Arab World was in it's Renissance. The contributions to world science by the Arab world are enormous.
You don't read about them because the media in this country is controlled by whom?
Hamas is shooting rockets at Israel? Who says ? American media ,
Look at the published facts: Israeli causalties: 67 soldiers
Palestinians nearly 2,000 mostly civilians , women and children.
This is nothing but ethnic cleansing, genocide.
As long as Palestinians exist in the area the legitimate cry for a
" two state" solution will be there. Israel does not want a two state solution.
If you want a great read on the origins of this conflict read
"How Israel Was Formed...a chronological history of formation of the State if Israel by a NY clinical psychologist, Baylis Thomas. You have to read it with a bookmark in the footnotes because it is so well documented with explanatory footnotes.
For objective current writings you cans subscribe to a free newsletter that is punished in India called COUNTERCURRENTS, you will find it I informative on many current issues, not just the Arab-Israeli conflict.
I am not a Moslem, I am an American and a historian by education and strive for truth.
seattleguy
Member
I am so sick of people calling it genocide. Person for person the IDF is one of the best military forces in the world. If they wanted to kill everyone in Gaza it would take maybe a week. Never before has there been such a targeted military action. I have no idea what you read but what contributions to science has the Arab world made? Perhaps you mean the Ottoman empire. The Turkish contribution is enormous. They are Muslim but certainly not Arab. How can you doubt the rockets form Gaza into Israel - you simply are uneducated. The reason the losses are limited is Israel builds bomb shelters everywhere. Every new building and park has one, it is part of the building code. Meanwhile Hamas uses their cement to build terror tunnels instead of schools and hospitals. Israel does support a 2 state solution. It will give land for peace. It gave back the Sinai for peace with Egypt and it kicked the settlers out of Gaza and gave it back. The Gazans elected terrorist to run their government and attack Israel. Now they are reaping what they sowed.
