Thinking of re-designing my weep system

[Bubbles Galore]

I would like to try and utilize some type of pump/storage setup that uses water from the self serve pits instead of using city line pressure/solenoid setup. Looking for tips, ideas, best practices, things to avoid, etc.

With water rates increasing 45% this year alone, I need to take advantage of all options available.

 

[MEP001]

Have you considered insulating and heating the lines and purging the bay hose with antifreeze?

 

[Bubbles Galore]

I have thought of that. What kind of ideas do you have? I was thinking the first step would be to purge with air and then some kind of antifreeze purge after that with an air assist? I know that I need to do something different and will entertain all ideas. Let's hear what you guys have...

 

[Jim L.]

I weep with water well water.

 

[MEP001]

I plan on doing something to that effect. Last winter we had an abnormal amount of freezing weather. On a few days that were cold but still busy, all the low-pressure lines had frozen. My plan is to build a trough to house all the lines and keep it heated. I already have a blow-down in place for the bay hoses, so after that occurs all I'd need is to shoot a small amount of antifreeze into the bay hose and trigger the blow-down again. I think it would work and would require only a tiny amount of solution.

 

[SuperClean]

I did this last year and saved about $4000 It cost me about $600 my gun drains on the back wall so i dilled a hole into the equipment room and ran 2 inch pve i moved my brushes to the back wall also and did the same. I used a chemical barrel cut in half and ran the pvc to drain into it. I have 4 bays so each bay has there own and then i ran 3/4 inch line between the barrels. I also put a float valve on the 2 buckets closest to the T going to the well pump so the pump never runs dry( i just took the weep lines going to the bay). i put a T in the middle of them and hooked up a 3/4 inch line to a shallow well pump from home depot and hooked that up to my weep line i should have done this years ago. I also put a little pressure tank after the pump so it would not run as much i found that when the weep opened for 10% it really made the pump jump since it could come on for a sec or 2 and then shut off i think my tank might be 5 gal you will need this. After i got the pressure tank i didn't have 1 freeze up and it works from pressure so when the weep opens up it pumps when it got cold the pump would run forever and never failed once.

 

[Randy]

There are a number of systems available that blow down the system with air followed by a small amount of anti-freeze. My Foam brush system switches from regular foam brush soap to anti-freeze foam brush soap at 34 degrees purges the system for 15 or 20 seconds and then stays on Anti-freeze soap until the temperature comes up to 35 degrees.

 

[SuperClean]

If you ever come over to Windsor you can check it out.
Greig

 

[Randy]

Why don't you post some pictures for us who are a long ways from Windsor.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

I would like to utilize a HP blow down throughout the year and then have an antifreeze purge once the temp gets below 35 or so. Hey mep, do you think you could program something with one of the logo controllers like you did for my triple foam system?

What would be a low cost antifreeze solution to use?

 

[MEP001]

It should be pretty easy to program, but with the number of outputs you'll need it'll probably cost around $500 in controllers and expansion blocks.

I use WalMart windshield washer solvent as a foam brush antifreeze since I only have to mix some in the tank and purge the lines manually if there's a freeze in the overnight forecast. It's less than $2 a gallon - I'm sure it can be gotten in bulk much cheaper, or even plain methanol mixed with water should work.

 

[Jeff_L]

Ok, so I'm sitting here trying to figure out what you mean by antifreeze, so pardon the stupid question. When you say you would use antifreeze to blow down the line, do you mean the glycol/water mix? Or do you mean an antifreeze solution such as windshield washer fluid?

Glycol has that slimy type feeling to it and I wonder what that would do to the cars as they get washed. Or is it just such a small amount that the HP soap coming through the line would clean it out in the first few seconds?

 

[Bubbles Galore]

I have no intentions of using glycol. When I am referencing antifreeze, I am only speaking of a solution that is cold resistant to x degrees. I will most likely use some type of hybrid mix of water and methanol that would be good to x degrees (-20 F for example).

 

[Bubbles Galore]

Mep...let me do some more thinking and then I will shoot you an e-mail and we'll see if we can work out the specifics.

 

[MEP001]

I'll probably write the program in the meantime, should be a relatively simple one.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

Sounds good. I don't think I want to use a flojet to purge the bay lines, what pump style do you guys recommend? Should I air purge from the manifold, or start all the way back at the pump?

Mep, I will need this set up for 6 bays. Let me know how many expansion ports I will need.

 

[MEP001]

My air purge is at the manifold above the boom. I don't think purging the entire line is necessary or even a good idea.

I'll look into the expansion modules - I think they're four output and it would require a total of 12 (One output for each bay's air purge, one for each antifreeze).

 

[Bubbles Galore]

My largest concern with that is ensuring that any water left in the line would not gravity feed back into the bay where it could possibly freeze? If I were to air purge right from the pump stand, I may have to air purge longer, but won't have to worry about the gravity feed issue...but then that brings up the issue of purging from the manifold...if the line is "clear", then the solution can feed either way and may not always make it to the bay...what about a second air purge after the solution has been pumped into the lines...

...sorry, just downed a bunch of caffeine so my mind is racing :/

 

[pitzerwm]

Since the pump is lower than the boom, you shouldn't have gravity flow. Maybe a siphon, if there are no "leaks" that shouldn't happen either. Worse case put in a 5 lb check valve

 

[MEP001]

what about a second air purge after the solution has been pumped into the lines...

That's exactly what I planned - I did a rudimentary program, and it was easy enough to let it purge with once after each customer, and with an input from a thermostat to have it purge, flush with a bit of antifreeze and purge again. Bill is right, there should be no water entering the bay hose once it's cleared of liquid.

I'll work some more on the program so when it gets the first input from the thermostat it will freeze-protect any bays not in use, then it'll just be a matter of adding more outputs as needed.