Tip Sizes and Dilution

[caliwashes]

Hello everyone,

First time trying out Kleen Rite foam brush “bubble up” soap. The instructions say to mix the 5 gallons of concentrate with 10 gallons of water to make 15 gallons. It also advises to use a yellow metering tip.

So this means that I have a diluted mixture of 15 gallons that goes to my hydrominder via a yellow tip and then gets further diluted in the tank? Is there any way I can just draw from the concentrate itself? Thank you.

 

[DiamondWash]

I always draw straight from the container and put a smaller tip in, but don't fill your holding tank up completely, just enough to test the mixture in the bay to your liking.

 

[caliwashes]

Thanks, what tip size do you recommend? Or just trial and error?

 

[edredtop]

Hello everyone,

First time trying out Kleen Rite foam brush “bubble up” soap. The instructions say to mix the 5 gallons of concentrate with 10 gallons of water to make 15 gallons. It also advises to use a yellow metering tip.

So this means that I have a diluted mixture of 15 gallons that goes to my hydrominder via a yellow tip and then gets further diluted in the tank? Is there any way I can just draw from the concentrate itself? Thank you.

"Caliwashes"... does that mean you're in California?
I'd be really interested in knowing if you have coagulation issues with your choice of soap in a few months.
It would look like this
...and yes, you're probably going to change a few tips before you get it right.

 

[TMoliver]

Did you start with a clean fresh container ? Some chemicals are not compatible. Even though both are for the same purpose. Seen gelling many time.

 

[edredtop]

Did you start with a clean fresh container ? Some chemicals are not compatible. Even though both are for the same purpose. Seen gelling many time.

Brand new Air logic system, brand new soap containers.

 

[Randy]

When I used that garbage KR soap I used it per the instructions on the label and it worked fine, just mix 10 gallons of water with 1 bucket of soap, how hard is that. I think I used a Yellow or a Purple tip. The problem we had with the soap was it will snot up and look like the snot in Ed's picture. Once it snots up it’ll plug everything up, we also had problems with it separating in the bucket. The best soap I found is JBS Fonic wash, we use it for both the high pressure and foam brush, we stopped using colored soaps years ago, to much mess.

 

[Big Chris]

Firstly, I use KR's Bubble Up and I think its absolutely fine. Smells good, has great color and foams up great. I've not had any gel or coagulation issues......ever.

There is a reason they want you to dilute it first. It's because with the old screw in style tips, there is too big a ratio jump between the purple and pink tips. Let me explain.

If you dilute 5 gallons soap with 10 gallons of water and then use the old style screw in yellow tip you'll end up with a final dilution of 180:1

Here's the math:
If you add 5 gallons of Bubble Up to 10 gallons of water, that's a 2:1 ratio...... water to soap
The old screw in style Yellow tip is 90:1 of water to soap.
So to get the final dilution ratio you simply multiply your ratios together, 90 x 2 = 180:1 final dilution.
Which would land you between the Yellow (90:1) Purple (120:1) or Pink (240:1) These are BIG ratio changes..........the % jump from 90:1 to 120:1 is 33% and from 120:1 to 240:1 is 100% <-- these are with the old style screw in tips without initial dilution w 10 gallons of water.
So by mixing it 2:1 with water, you can get to the desired ratio of 180:1.........

I use the newer style 1/4" Hydrominder push in style tips, they offer much better resolution, and IMO the hoses and such are so much more manageable and neater than the older style screw in type.

I mix slightly richer than recommended. My logic here is as follows: I want the customer to go "Holy $hit, there's so much soap! Man, am I getting my money's worth!!!!" In reality this soap is super low cost, and the customer then spends MORE time rinsing all the foam away and therefore spends more time/money in the bay. I may spend $.03 in soap, but the customer spends an extra $1.00 to rinse all the suds away. In my mind it's a win/win. Customer perception is great and I am getting them to spend more time.

If you have the Hydrominder 1/4" push in style tips, this is easier to achieve as these tips have a finer resolution, you'd want to use the "New Red" .015" tip at 198:1 or "Aqua" .018" tip at 153:1". This is straight out of the 5 gallon jug and NOT diluted with 10gallons of water.

The cost is super low per car.....
Say you purchased the 5 gallon jug and did not take advantage of the Monster Soap Special the price is $91.61.
91.61/5= $18.32 per gallon
dilute that out to 153:1 and now your at $0.12/gallon
Now assume someone will use 1/4 gallon to suds up their car....
Now your at $0.03 per car

If you ran the same number as above, but diluted to 198:1 you'd be at $0.02 per car......

Your milage may vary.

 

[edredtop]

Firstly, I use KR's Bubble Up and I think its absolutely fine. Smells good, has great color and foams up great. I've not had any gel or coagulation issues......ever.

There is a reason they want you to dilute it first. It's because with the old screw in style tips, there is too big a ratio jump between the purple and pink tips. Let me explain.

If you dilute 5 gallons soap with 10 gallons of water and then use the old style screw in yellow tip you'll end up with a final dilution of 180:1

Here's the math:
If you add 5 gallons of Bubble Up to 10 gallons of water, that's a 2:1 ratio...... water to soap
The old screw in style Yellow tip is 90:1 of water to soap.
So to get the final dilution ratio you simply multiply your ratios together, 90 x 2 = 180:1 final dilution.
Which would land you between the Yellow (90:1) Purple (120:1) or Pink (240:1) These are BIG ratio changes..........the % jump from 90:1 to 120:1 is 33% and from 120:1 to 240:1 is 100% <-- these are with the old style screw in tips without initial dilution w 10 gallons of water.
So by mixing it 2:1 with water, you can get to the desired ratio of 180:1.........

I use the newer style 1/4" Hydrominder push in style tips, they offer much better resolution, and IMO the hoses and such are so much more manageable and neater than the older style screw in type.

I mix slightly richer than recommended. My logic here is as follows: I want the customer to go "Holy $hit, there's so much soap! Man, am I getting my money's worth!!!!" In reality this soap is super low cost, and the customer then spends MORE time rinsing all the foam away and therefore spends more time/money in the bay. I may spend $.03 in soap, but the customer spends an extra $1.00 to rinse all the suds away. In my mind it's a win/win. Customer perception is great and I am getting them to spend more time.

If you have the Hydrominder 1/4" push in style tips, this is easier to achieve as these tips have a finer resolution, you'd want to use the "New Red" .015" tip at 198:1 or "Aqua" .018" tip at 153:1". This is straight out of the 5 gallon jug and NOT diluted with 10gallons of water.

The cost is super low per car.....
Say you purchased the 5 gallon jug and did not take advantage of the Monster Soap Special the price is $91.61.
91.61/5= $18.32 per gallon
dilute that out to 153:1 and now your at $0.12/gallon
Now assume someone will use 1/4 gallon to suds up their car....
Now your at $0.03 per car

If you ran the same number as above, but diluted to 198:1 you'd be at $0.02 per car......

Your milage may vary.
View attachment 13068

Thoughtful and useful post, but all of that math goes out the window if you get a snot bloom.

 

[Big Chris]

Thoughtful and useful post, but all of that math goes out the window if you get a snot bloom.

Whatcha think causes the "snot bloom"?
I've been using Bubble Up for a little over 2 years. Even leaving it sit stagnant in it's chem tank for most of the winter when I switch to foamy brush with methanol. I've not encountered this.....
FWIW my chem tanks are stainless...

 

[Greg Pack]

Snot can be caused by algae if the soap is more in the middle ranges of ph, Algae growth can occur between about 5-8. This is why you see these problems mainly with neutral pH foam brush products. Tire clean, foaming conditioners, presoaks, and most HP soaps likely have phs out of this range in the tank. Scrap copper pipe can help inhibit this problem, but doesn't seem to totally eliminate it.

Some incompatibility issues are related to ingredients. I've got a foam brush product that I've used a both my washes,. At my busier site it will gel up on the strainers and clog the foam generators within a month. At the other site that is not as busy it works fine with no issue. Both sites have soft water. After some testing the company thinks its a fragrance breaking down. Opposite problem of the algae it seems, where the higher product turnover is actually exacerbating the problem.

 

[Greg Pack]

Back to the original question I'd try a pink hydrominder tip and see what happens. Viscosity of the solution is a factor and a pink tip is 248:1 but that is a liquid with the viscosity of water. in push in tips below pink they also have a "new black" and "light gray" before you're back down to purple.

I've also used screw in dema tips on hydrominders with decent results on hyperconcentrates, but you just have to experiment to find what works.

Some people claim small tips clog easily but I think a lot of that is self -inflicted. I keep my bucket caps on and rinse off the tops before I change out and I almost never encounter a clogged tip.