Too many Tokens

[BSkenes]

We converted both of our ss carwashes to Tokens about 3 years ago and it finally stopped our theft and vandalism problems. Neither of our locations are very high volume so we went with the standard size token but had then nickel plated to look a little nicer. This allowed us to use less expensive regular drop acceptors in the vacs and vends and continue with the same GinSanSensotrons in the bays. Recently, we have been having a problem getting large numbers of tokens from Celebration Station. Can any of the electronic coin acceptors be made to accept nickel plated tokens but reject the regular brass tokens? The Sensotrons are just too "loose"

 

[pitzerwm]

What I understand is that the acceptors can be adjusted to eliminate tokens that have a different percentage of whatever metal that they measure. The fact that yours has a nickel plating is only a small issue. You might send, your tokens and some of the ones that you have in your area to acceptor manuf. and see if theirs will discriminate well enough.

 

[mjc3333]

.You can try to adjust the SB, but I was in the same situation 10 years ago. I dispense tokens in one of my coin changers along with reg. qtrs. in the other two. In the beginning, I did not see any other tokens. Once the customers knew about the tokens, it was HORRIBLE!! I lost over $20,000 over 10 years in other tokens from EVERYWHERE!! The ONLY permanent solution is a high security token CTX or CT token from Van Brook. The only problem is the cost. $.30 to $.40 each. I have my tokens worth $1 not $.25. Once I switched the problem tokens dwindled down to maybe one or two per month. If you do not switch, the problem will only get worse. If you adjust the SB acceptor too much, you will not be able to accept your own tokens

 

[mjc3333]

Oh, the nickel coating on your token is just that, a coating. Under the coating is probably one of the three most common alloys. 85/15 80/20 or the most common 70/30. You have to send the token you use to the rejector company to determine the exact makeup, or call the company where you got the tokens. Most rejectors cannot reject the 'wrong' token. I tried to do this for 5 years back and forth with Parker Eng for the Slugbuster II. I was able to dial out the unwanted token, but then had an adverse affect on my regular tokens. I would get calls daily....your tokens don't work....you ripped me off.....etc etc etc. Instead of losing my own customer base, I turned down the sensitivity on the rejector. That was when the onrush of 'other' tokens came through. I got everything 85/15 red brass 70/30 gaming chukie cheese tokens, I could not believe just how many different companies use tokens in one way or another. I did not realize just how much I lost until I made the switch to a CT dual metal token. I have three 5 gallon buckets filled to the top.... 18,000 to 20,000 tokens. At $1 each well.... it was a no brainer switch or go back to cash only. Now I can turn down the sensitivity on the SB II and reject 99% of the unwanted tokens while making my customers happy and more willing to buy them over quarters because of the great acceptance.

 

[Randy]

Sounds to me like someone didn’t do there homework before they jumped on the Token band wagon. Like mcj3333 said the nickel coating is just a coating, it has nothing to do with the acceptance of the token. The ONLY thing you can do is change a secure type token. Granted they are more expensive but they will pay off in the long run. I’m working with a lady right now who wants to switch to tokens. She’s got her mind made up that a cheap .984 85/15 token is the way to go. I’m beating my head again the wall trying to convince her that she’s making a major mistake but all she can see is the cost of a secure type token and she’s flipping out over the cost.

 

[Waxman]

How about using a different size than celebration station? if it's bigger than your coinslot you can dremel out the slot a bit to accept a larger token.

Do it to the Chuck Berry lyrics: '...drop the coin right into the slot. you gotta hear somethin that's really hot.'

 

[MEP001]

A Sensortron will have trouble distinguishing between two tokens of different size but of the same metal content. Ours are all MA800's and have no trouble with that. If you use the next size larger or smaller token along with an acceptor that can tell them apart, you won't need such an expensive security token. If you're vending tokens for 25¢ value it might be a better way to go. If you're vending them for $1 or more value, think about the more secure option.

 

[mjc3333]

This may be true of the MA800, but remember, 85/15 tokens are ALL the same. 70/30 tokens are all the same. You will never be able to 'not' accept these tokens if you are using the same type. You need to find out what kind of token you have first. Then decide how much you want to spend or not spend in accepting other tokens. Most acceptors cannot tell the difference between the actual size of the token. It is the metal content that counts.

 

[mjc3333]

BSkenes

I just thought of a different way to try and cut down on the Celebration Station tokens. Most places like this use 70/30 alloy .985 tokens. The .985 token is just a little bit bigger than the US quarter. You could actually try and use the smallest diameter token available on the market. Since you do not accept anything other than the token, you could make the opening of each coin acceptor small enough to allow your token only. If the Celebration token is larger than this it would not mechanically fit into your coin slot. The only problem would be if you started to get other tokens that were the same smaller size as yours. Again, it would be a trial and error type situation. You need to decide how much time effort and money you want to spend to rectify the problem. Trust me.... it will only get worse if you do nothing. Word spreads quickly about how your car wash will take any token someone may have just laying around!

 

[MEP001]

This may be true of the MA800, but remember, 85/15 tokens are ALL the same. 70/30 tokens are all the same. You will never be able to 'not' accept these tokens if you are using the same type. You need to find out what kind of token you have first. Then decide how much you want to spend or not spend in accepting other tokens. Most acceptors cannot tell the difference between the actual size of the token. It is the metal content that counts.

Actually most acceptors can distinguish two tokens of the same metal content but of different size. I've had no trouble with most acceptors in this regard. The Sensortron doesn't do well at all; by the time you get it set to always reject a different size token than the sample it will at least occasionally reject the match, and temperature changes may make it worse or may even make it take the bad ones.

The "smaller than .984 token" idea would work without changing the acceptors, but remember you'll have to modify your changer to dispense a smaller token. For the record, some places do use smaller tokens. I find "no name" tokens around the wash all the time. People will stick anything round in there to see if it will work.

 

[Randy]

There’s a car wash not far from me that the owner got tired of un-jamming unwanted coins, Nickels, Dimes, Pennies and tokens from his coin acceptors that he wedged open the shoe on the side of his coin acceptors so any coin that is inserted will drop into the coin vault, only US Quarters will register time to the meter. He put a small sticker on the face of the meter box that say’s “US QUARTERS ONLY ALL OTHER COINS WILL BE LOST” He can’t believe how many Nickels, Dimes, Pennies and other tokens he gets.

 

[BSkenes]

More Token Help Please

Thanks for all the good posts to my question about "Too Many Tokens" We converted to tokens because of continued, massive damage and theft. It was literally convert or close. Anything with any cash money in it that the public could get to was torn apart. They even ripped meter boxes off the wall and dropped hoses from shop vacs powered by generators into my coin vaults. Emptying everything daily did no good. They did $6,000 damage one night to get at what I believe was $8 in quarters. Surveleince is a joke. The police have numerous pictures of the perpetrators supplied by my competitors. They even caught one duo in the act. The pair made bail (with quarters one officer later told me), and hit 2 more washes on the way out of town. Around here they let murders and rapists out of jail because they are overcrowded. How serious do you think they take busting up a carwash. Unfortunately, both of my washes are pretty low volume and our budgets just did not allow for conversion of 13 vacs and 10 vending machines to electronic coin acceptors so we could use the more expensive custom tokens. Therefore, we went with the standard size where we could get inexpensive drop type coin accaeptors. Tokens it is and tokens it will stay but what kind and how we accept them is something we will continue to work on. We recently purchased an additional change machine for our larger wash. We got the American changer with a coin acceptor option so we can now dispense quater tokens for dollar coins, quaters and even dimes and nickels. That appears to be helping the volume some but the machine was awful expensive for our operation. All of the comments are helpful and much appreciated. Anyone with ideas about economical (OK, cheap) ways to use custom tokens in drop coin acceptors or other ideas, please post. Anyone with ideas about an inexpensive coin to token machine for my other wash, also please post. The more I read the more I learn. Thanks

 

[mjwalsh]

alarm---pic---charge!

BSKenes,

I know this isn't what you asked ----Do you have or plan on improving your alarm system & the response ability? It seems like tokens solve the coin box breakins --- but won't the addicts or whoever speculate about the bills in your bill to token machines? I know it is easier said than done but it seems like focusing on the overall alarm system including the response by you &/or the police could be less expensive then getting in too deep with tokens.

This is one of the reasons why I am hoping someone from this forum can assist me (us) on instant context sensitive cell pics in sync with the alarm area violated. I believe some members of this forum have systems very close to what I describe without the protection breaking the bank.

In my area if 911 gets a bone chilling for real call that an alarm has been verified visually & a potentially bloody confrontation is eminent with the owner or manager vs the criminals ---the law enforcement might be there way quicker than the criminals or you might imagine ---even before the damage is as horrific as you describe.

I know from experience one time there were 5 or more police cars that came & with a police dog when they found out I might be dumb enough to go inside our building where it appeared the criminals were based on the visual sighting etc. The police were very concerned that they would have a hostage situation & the problem would be compounded. The key was they knew it was no goofy false alarm.

MJ

 

[MEP001]

Unfortunately, both of my washes are pretty low volume and our budgets just did not allow for conversion of 13 vacs and 10 vending machines to electronic coin acceptors so we could use the more expensive custom tokens. Therefore, we went with the standard size where we could get inexpensive drop type coin accaeptors.

Are you talking about mechanical coin acceptors? You're completely at the mercy of the size of the tokens available in your area.

Why did you start a new thread on the same subject instead of posting a follow-up in your own thread? This makes it harder to track the discussion. There were some good suggestions in your other thread. Dod you consider any of them at all? Your new thread seems like you merely disregarded everything offered.

 

[bigleo48]

BSKenes,

This is one of the reasons why I am hoping someone from this forum can assist me (us) on instant context sensitive cell pics in sync with the alarm area violated. I believe some members of this forum have systems very close to what I describe without the protection breaking the bank. MJ

MJ,

I asked for specifics before...I can and have access to people who can do this sort of thing.

However, don't you just want an alarm to go to your cell and have your DVR post JPGs every few seconds to a website that you can access with your phone? My alarms go to a monitoring company, but I do have cell access to all 30 of my cameras that get updated every 30 seconds (I can change that) 24/7, along with recording to hard drive 3 months deep.

Big

 

[BSkenes]

MJ

You are lucky that you live in an area that values it's taxpaying citizens. In the dozen or so instances where our monitored alarms were activated, the police never got there before we did even though it was very early morning and we were routed out of a sound sleep. The police were quick to point out though that if we sought to defend our property or set up traps that did some perpetrator harm, we would be prosecuted. Our equipment room and change machine were alarmed but we did not have alarms on every vac, vend and bay safe. It is hard to justify spending a fortune in alarms on a wash that does less than $3,000 a month in good months. Our legal system was very courteous, just useless!

 

[BSkenes]

MEP001

Sorry I offended you! I am obviously new to this forum and am still trying to get the hang of posting and responding. My original post was placed under "Hamilton" rather than "Self Service" (I don't know why but if it was my fault I am sorry for that as well) and I thought it went better in "Self Service" In my second posting, I clearly thanked everyone for their comments and stated that "All of the comments are helpful and much appreciated" Maybe if I keep posting I can learn enough to become a self-important
p---- like you.

 

[Waxman]

If you are new here as you say, you should realize that name calling equates to you starting off on the wrong foot.

Good luck getting help and advice with a poor attitude and thin skin.

Call me whatever you like.

 

[MEP001]

I only said it seemed that way. I mentioned continuing the discussion in your own thread to help you and for no other reason. Fortunately Bill merged the two threads so they can be read together more easily and others can more easily understand your problem. If you can get past my abrasive manner, I can get past your name-calling and we can get back to the problem like adults.

You didn't answer my question regarding your acceptors. Regardless of whether or not you appreciated the responses, you made no comment about any suggestions made. If you want further help in the matter, it would be beneficial if you'd give feedback on the matters.

 

[pitzerwm]

I'm leaving the last three posts as a lesson to all. I'm in a good mood today or I would be banning or deleting.