Touchless or Friction
- Thread starter cbruton21
- Start date
OurTown
Well-known member
Touchless can be great if you have mostly tunnel or other friction competition but you need to be very critical of water quality and chemical selection and concentration. Friction turns out a cleaner car at usually lower cost but with greater damage risk.
xbowhunter86
New member
Both! Look at Autec Combination machines. I own several great wash quality and you can offer touchless in a friction market
AZcarwashman
Active member
All my sites at Mark 7 touchless and I like the way they clean, but as Our Town said, water quality and chemical selection/titration is key. Otherwise you’ll never get a fully clean car with only touchless. Mark 7 also make a duel touchless and friction called a choicewash. Kind of best of both worlds and gives the end user many options. They can choose one or the other or even combination of both.
Most touchless do OK when you wash a clean vehicle. Obviously having HP contour the vehicle gets the best penetration. On the Autec machine the HP nozzles are angled into the vehicle giving some front/rear HP application that does OK. Chemical application is critical on all machines and the product used should work in your area. In my area there are a few touchless machines and a lot of friction with tunnels and automatics. Utilizing the "in-bay express" concept you can process a lot of vehicles with a 2:30-3:00 min cycle time. We actually offer a 2 pass touchless but 90% of the washes are friction.
washnshine
Well-known member
How is Autec for maintenance and reliability? I’ve only seen one near me. I always thought the most potential for damage in a friction machine is the top brush, and with mitters, it seems like it would eliminate a lot of that potential. I know the mitters are not as aggressive but if you used a high pressure prep(from the machine) and a good alkaline detergent, It would probably equal what a lot of mitter - only tunnels are doing, at that is pretty darn good.
Just to be clear we run the touchless HP along with Cloth it makes for a clean vehicle and happy customer. The machine is pretty basic nowhere near the amount of sensors and switches than most other machines. Keep the bearings greased, and there really isn’t much of a maintenance requirement.
As far as damage, I have found customers cause most of the damage. They tend to run into machines regardless of friction, or touchless. that is not to say there isn’t damage, but it is very minimal. A Mirror that was previously hit or loose trim makes up most damage. The washers are gentle hydraulic driven and they will stall instead of causing damage.
As far as damage, I have found customers cause most of the damage. They tend to run into machines regardless of friction, or touchless. that is not to say there isn’t damage, but it is very minimal. A Mirror that was previously hit or loose trim makes up most damage. The washers are gentle hydraulic driven and they will stall instead of causing damage.
OurTown
Well-known member
Greg Pack
Wash Weenie
Fairly long term IBA operator here (22 years with touchless, 12 with friction) and will say that touchless has its' niche but friction gets cars consistently clean. Hard water, soft water, titration levels, high-low, low-high,seasonal and regional variations, etc. -all that matters little. I've got istobal friction units and I could use the cheapest foam brush soap I could find as my only chemical and I bet it will still outclean 95% of touch frees. Touchfree in some area seems easy, but in other areas seem very tough. Owners must be vigilant with water quality and chemistry strength. Look in the threads here and you will find many touchfree owners looking for better chemistry cleaning solutions.
Many prospective wash owners are concerned about damage claims. A modern friction unit that senses torque on the brushes electronically and adjusts brush pressure should be pretty safe. I probably see a damage complaint every 5K cars or so and it's usually a $30-50 rear wiper arm. I started reviewing these on video and started finding a common cause are customers prepping their car and forgetting to put the wiper arm back in place properly. Having good signage helps as well. At the end of the day the cost of damage claims is a fraction of what touch free chemistry costs to run.
Friction washes also make it easier to take full advantage of the modern spray sealants that makes a car look and feel great. If you use those on a touchfree and haven't cleaned the car well enough during the wash process you will seal the film in, which will require strong chemistry AND friction to remove. I intentionally run my ceramics a good bit weaker in the touchfree for that reason.
I have two IBAs side by side, one touchless and one friction, and the touchless gets good usage too, mainly from people that are afraid of friction units. So if you're covered up with expresses in your area a touchfree unit may help differentiate you.
A combo wash may make sense but it needs a lot of signage and customer education. People that want touch free will often drive up, see the brushes, and drive off.
Many prospective wash owners are concerned about damage claims. A modern friction unit that senses torque on the brushes electronically and adjusts brush pressure should be pretty safe. I probably see a damage complaint every 5K cars or so and it's usually a $30-50 rear wiper arm. I started reviewing these on video and started finding a common cause are customers prepping their car and forgetting to put the wiper arm back in place properly. Having good signage helps as well. At the end of the day the cost of damage claims is a fraction of what touch free chemistry costs to run.
Friction washes also make it easier to take full advantage of the modern spray sealants that makes a car look and feel great. If you use those on a touchfree and haven't cleaned the car well enough during the wash process you will seal the film in, which will require strong chemistry AND friction to remove. I intentionally run my ceramics a good bit weaker in the touchfree for that reason.
I have two IBAs side by side, one touchless and one friction, and the touchless gets good usage too, mainly from people that are afraid of friction units. So if you're covered up with expresses in your area a touchfree unit may help differentiate you.
A combo wash may make sense but it needs a lot of signage and customer education. People that want touch free will often drive up, see the brushes, and drive off.
washnshine
Well-known member
All great points.
I believe the main hydraulic pump is variable flow constant pressure. Each motor circuit has its own speed/pressure regulator adjustment. I believe this limits an over torque. Autec only runs their hydraulics at 1000 psi, which is very low for hydraulic circuits. You can actually grab a rotating side washer and stop it to test how gentle.
Yes, electric motor VFD controllers are capable of limiting torque to each motor also but understanding how to adjust it properly is realy technical and requires a seperate controller for each motor to gain that kind of control.
Well said!
SuperShine
Active member
Friction if you love rising labour costs, filling in when said labour no shows on your weekend and spending your free time reviewing 4k camera footage just to prove how safe your wash is when every nut with a curb rashed wheel or grocery cart scratch blames your wash. Cleaner yes but at what cost to your sanity?
Lets be honest, your typical 39 ft, low ceiling, converted SS to friction IBA isn’t going to hold a candle to a well ran 150ft+ 8m express tunnel with an acre of free vacs, a LED light show and a focus on wash clubs.
I’ll take a multi bay touch free Petit IBA Wash with wash clubs and 24hours of very little labour any day.
Cheers
Lets be honest, your typical 39 ft, low ceiling, converted SS to friction IBA isn’t going to hold a candle to a well ran 150ft+ 8m express tunnel with an acre of free vacs, a LED light show and a focus on wash clubs.
I’ll take a multi bay touch free Petit IBA Wash with wash clubs and 24hours of very little labour any day.
Cheers
I’ve had a friction wash for over 27 years. I’ve had 2 claims in 27 years,both Uber $150 We do find some small trim pieces every now and then but over all nothing. The chemicals used is minor compared to a touch less, but more than it used to be. When we first installed our RYKO SOFTGLOSS we used soap, tire clean, wax. Now it’s triple foam, bug prep, tire clean, wax, ceramic.so the chemical cost is more but we were able to increase price to off set. The new RYKO MAXX 5 we installed a few years ago has been great. I don’t think any touchfree could match the clean. We also now have high pressure nozzles for wheel clean and side blasters
washnshine
Well-known member
Yes - it really is an apples to oranges comparison.
washnshine
Well-known member
An updated, modern friction like you have with all the chemicals and high pressure components can rival a tunnel quality wash. Sure - it will be slower, but the capability is there.
Have run the same Autec EV1 Combination machine in a stand alone 65' glass wash on a postage stamp lot since '04. Yes had to adjust the model as competition came. Started with a 49' building with no vacs have expanded and added free vacs with a gated lot. We have 3 Express tunnels within 1 mile and another that just opened. With each tunnel the business dropped but within 6 mo my volume cames back. Ya just have to meet your competition with a better consistent wash to keep volume coming. Remember we are open 24/7 and they aren't. Maybe adding "wash club" is in the future. As far as damage not an issue and labor to keep the lot clean and machine lubed is a minimum. If you are spending time going through video something is wrong.....
