Trash Dumpers Police say its OK

[sparkey]

I just had it out with the local police department. I yelled at a young girl in a minivan (its always minivans) for driving on my property, dumping trash then driving off without buying anything. The girl called the police and told them I yelled at her, which I did, but I was civil. The police told me she had a right to dump her trash and she doesn't need to buy anything. After this I told the police if that is the way they see it then I want a no trespass order filed on her, because you basically just gave her a license to dump trash on my property any time she wants. They said they couldn't file a no trespass order unless I felt threatened. I am going to have a visit with the local police chief in the morning and see if he agrees. I am about to remove the trash cans and when customers throw trash on the ground I know the litter ordinance will cover that.

I live in Ohio and the Ohio revised code and looked up theft of services which doesn't seem to fit very well. The littering ordinance isn't the best either.

Any ammo would help before I go talk to the police chief. Any suggestions?

 

[DiamondWash]

Be sure to bring donuts

 

[Jeff_L]

I always thought that is a theft of service. Is there a sign stating trash cans are for customers only?

 

[I.B. Washincars]

I think you both over reacted in this case. We have drive-up trash cans. It's not a stretch to think someone may drive up and throw some trash in one and drive away. I've done it, you probably have too. Had she brought household trash to your dumpster, I would go along with you, but in this case I won't. It's just part of the business. If you can't handle that, you got in the wrong business.

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

In my town we have to pay for the service of trash collection. If I put out more than my allotted 3 bags, I get a surcharge on my bill. So when somebody drops off a bag of garbage (or tires, furniture, etc) they are clearly stealing a service, so the police do cite them for theft of services.

Now, if I talk to individual officers about customers leaving excessive trash without being a customer, I get a very mixed response. Unless it is clearly excessive, and clearly "household or commercial" trash in which case they will issue a citation. Definitions for those vary, but a few examples are an entire thanksgiving dinner - turkey carcass, plates, half empty wine bottles, everything - all wrapped up in a cheap tablecloth. Or bags of ashes from a coal furnace. Or all 3 trash cans filled with lumber/brick/cement scraps. Etc.

FYI I have wanted to eliminate my trash cans for a long time - as discussed briefly here.
I concluded that I get almost zero vac revenue between thanskgiving and march 1, so I really cant come up with a business case for providing a free "town dump" service. So I'm going to close my trash cans for that period. I didnt do it this past winter due to other things going on, just didnt get to it... but am drafting signs etc for next winter.

Please keep us posted on your efforts and results.

 

[tdlconceptsllc]

why is it always the local police and not the sherrifs department. Hey if they feel like she can dump trash anytime on your property tell them your gonna save all your trash for a week take it to the police department parking lot and dump it all over there place and town and see how that goes over. Then tell the police that said that your going to go to his house and dump your trash in his yard and tell him it's no different. Man this is the craziest thing I have read on this form in a long time. I would have done flipped out by now on a another level how dumb is that. Good Luck man I'll say a prayer.

 

[Earl Weiss]

1. IMO Police correct. You are wrong.
2. Can't steal something you give away for free.
3. Laws Vary. Typically you would have to have revoked permission for her to be on property, and personally notified her of that before re entry would constitute trespass. (Your narrative did not indicate you did this.)
4. Signs may or may not cover this i.e. (It is CRIMINAL TRESPASS to be present on these premises unless you are paying for services provided during that visit. Violators will be prosecuted.")
5. In big cities most cops have better things to do.

 

[Earl Weiss]

FWIW I take a positive approach if I see stuff like this. "If you like using our garbage / Changers you should try the wash."

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

It's just part of the business. If you can't handle that, you got in the wrong business.

With all due respect, I disagree. Strongly.
Even during bad weather - lightning storms, snow storms, sub-zero temps - even when my wash is CLOSED - I have to go to the wash twice a day to empty all three trash cans and clean up litter. Zero dollars in the till. Twice a day.
We're not talking about somebody dropping off McDs trash or an empty drink - IB, I agree with you that is an unavoidable part of the business. But this is different, this is using the wash as a specific destination to specifically get rid of trash.
I provide a facility for customers to clean their cars, the trash cans are part of that. But much of the year 90-95% of my trash is in plastic bags that were already full and tied off before they arrived at the wash, which means they were not a "car cleaning customer," they are using us as a free trash service.

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

A brief anecdote -
About 10 years or so ago, I was on a consulting contract, we were headed out to a lunch meeting and one woman mentioned "I cant drive, my suv is full of garbage I didnt drop it off at the car wash this morning because I was late."
Obviously I replied... dont recall exactly what I said but we can all guess.
Her reply, however, I will never forget:
"Are you effing kidding me?? Its a effing CAR WASH you jacka__, thats where you take garbage!"

True story.

 

[MEP001]

First thing I'd do is post signs, something like "Trash receptacles are reserved for paying customers. Any other use is theft of service and will be prosecuted" or "Entry to property is limited to the use of car wash customers only. $200 fee for trash dumping without purchase." The cops here will enforce such signs. They'll also issue a criminal trespass warrant on anyone for any reason or even no reason as long as they're still on the property. I had a guy cuss me because I wouldn't let him dump a trunk full of stuff, then called the cops on me because I put a hand on the crescent wrench in my back pocket when he acted like he might hit me. He got a CTW, cops just told me to have a good day.

 

[Semi-retired]

Local authorities are not even interested when I call with $75,000 in vandalism in the last 5 years.
I have tried the proper path of call the police, show them the camera video of Example- 3 55 gallon drums of garbage being left on the floor in the bay with no services used. I have not gotten any support for tires, computers, animal carcass, stolen vehicles from my property, stolen card transactions that I notice and they are not concerned since it all gets thrown out when it goes up the process in the local courts.

So I'm generally an azz hole anyway 5 garbages full up to the new police station out front to pile it around the trash cans they have for walk in customers. I also deliver to homes free of charge, since its like they must have forgotten it when they left, I'm being a nice guy.
I have taken the tires occasionally rolling them to the front door of the station and computers go into the ghetto on a busy intersection on the street. The police have told me no more bringing it back to homes or I will be charged with illegal dumping.
So now a few years later I don't do that anymore because I have bigger things to worry about. If I see it happening I put it to a stop, tell them I don't want people like them as customer, while giving them directions to the public garbage cans like at the park, PD, downtown along the Main Street and c-stores.

 

[Randy]

There isn’t a whole lot you can do to the ones who come in and clean out there car and leave without spending a dime on anything. The ones who pi$$ us off are the ones who come in take the top off the garbage can and fill it up with a months’ worth of household garbage, this is when we get the police involved or at least try to get them to do something. Now the latest from the police is they can’t issue a “Theft of Services” citation off the HD video alone they need 3 pieces of mail along with the HD video. This sent us ballistic, both my wife and I ripped the policemen a new one over that statement, what it really boils down to is they don’t want to do anything. I’ve been toe to toe with more than one customer and policeman. I get great pleasure in ripping them a new one like R. Lee Ermey in Full Metal Jacket https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j3_iPskjxk. This really gets the police excited, tell the officer that you want his name and badge number and you are going to file a formal complaint against him for not doing his job and then call the Chief and tell him that you are going to file a formal complaint against one of his officers not enforcing the laws. They hate that because it goes into there personal file forever.

Normally we go to the car wash early, like 5am so we don’t have to interact with any of the customer who dump their garbage.
I have to agree Paul. The public’s perception of the car wash industry is pretty low, they seems to think that they can use the car wash to dump whatever they want. I’ve heard that phrase many times and it still pi$$es me off every time I hear it “It’s just Car Wash”

 

[Carver]

I just had it out with the local police department. I yelled at a young girl in a minivan (its always minivans) for driving on my property, dumping trash then driving off without buying anything. The girl called the police and told them I yelled at her, which I did, but I was civil. The police told me she had a right to dump her trash and she doesn't need to buy anything. After this I told the police if that is the way they see it then I want a no trespass order filed on her, because you basically just gave her a license to dump trash on my property any time she wants. They said they couldn't file a no trespass order unless I felt threatened. I am going to have a visit with the local police chief in the morning and see if he agrees. I am about to remove the trash cans and when customers throw trash on the ground I know the litter ordinance will cover that.

I live in Ohio and the Ohio revised code and looked up theft of services which doesn't seem to fit very well. The littering ordinance isn't the best either.

Any ammo would help before I go talk to the police chief. Any suggestions?

30 Plus years ago I knew a car wash owner who went through the bags of trash left at his was and got he address of the one responsible. He then loaded up the trash and dropped it off in their front yard. He got in trouble for littering. He said next he wouldn't get caught.

 

[MEP001]

30 Plus years ago I knew a car wash owner who went through the bags of trash left at his was and got he address of the one responsible. He then loaded up the trash and dropped it off in their front yard. He got in trouble for littering. He said next he wouldn't get caught.

There was a similar story where a car wash owner called the police when he found several bags of household trash - the cop went to the home and the guy said it had been stolen and wasn't his responsibility, so the cop did nothing. The wash owner took it to the house and left it in the front yard, and next day got a visit from a cop that the homeowner wanted to press charges because dogs had strewn the trash all over his yard. The wash owner said "I was just returning the guy's stolen property." The cop chuckled and said to have a good day.

 

[Mel(NC)]

Did the girl dump bags of garbage or just use the trash can to clean out her van without buying anything? Unless you have a sign up like MEP suggested stating not to use the trash can without making a purchase, I would think the girl had no idea she was doing anything wrong. If she dumped household garbage bags, I would also be upset. I too have gone through bags of garbage to find an address to "return" it to its rightful owner.

I read on this forum a very long time ago that reducing the opening on the garbage can receptacles will cut down on garbage. I did this and it reduced the amount of bags of garbage I was getting by 80-90%. If they can't get it in the trash can, I think most (but not all) will think twice about just leaving the bags on the ground.

Unless it was a LOT of garbage, I would be worried about the bad publicity a young girl could spread through social media after being yelled at.

 

[I.B. Washincars]

With all due respect, I disagree. Strongly.
Even during bad weather - lightning storms, snow storms, sub-zero temps - even when my wash is CLOSED - I have to go to the wash twice a day to empty all three trash cans and clean up litter. Zero dollars in the till. Twice a day.
We're not talking about somebody dropping off McDs trash or an empty drink - IB, I agree with you that is an unavoidable part of the business. But this is different, this is using the wash as a specific destination to specifically get rid of trash.
I provide a facility for customers to clean their cars, the trash cans are part of that. But much of the year 90-95% of my trash is in plastic bags that were already full and tied off before they arrived at the wash, which means they were not a "car cleaning customer," they are using us as a free trash service.

The way the original post is written, I get the impression that she put trash in a trash can, so I didn't get the impression it was a huge amount. If it was bags of household trash, I wouldn't blame him for yelling at her.

On a side note, here is something I have done several times. I find a piece of mail and cut out their address label. I then stuff a bunch of their stuff in a large, legal size envelope, and tape their label on the front. I just throw it in a mailbox, assuming it will go to them "postage due" or give them a notice they have a package at the PO. Either way, they will be inconvenienced a bit, and I get a good laugh.

 

[Mbalboni]

Sad to say, nature of the beast. My dumpster has locks on it so no one opening it except me and my barrels have covers keeping large items out. When if they get full I empty them, I have bigger things to worry about if money spent at wash corresponds with ratio of garbage dropped off. 20 years doing this, I get it. Sucks. But imagine what the clothing donation box people deal with. Have one near my wash it says donation of clothing and foot wear only. Outside of box is tires, mattresses and broken furniture. There are probably other industry service forums complaining about us and we don't even know it lol

 

[Earl Weiss]

Yesterday I see a guy dipping the Wobblehead into foam on the floor and using 2 hands to wash the car. I check to make sure the meter is not running and say to him. "What time is dinner at your house?" He says "Why". "I say because if you use my wash for free I am coming to your house to eat for free. " He then inserts $.

 

[Waxman]

I am also bothered by trash dumping and bucket washing / detailing / drying in bays when no meter is running.

I have slowly become more vocal and less tolerant of this customer behavior when I witness it personally. Even to the burliest of customers I have found myself saying things like: ' you have until the next customer pulls up behind you to dry ( or detail or whatever) your car, then you need to move along'. they seem to get it. I am clear and to the point. They know they are in the position to heed the instructions I give ( not because I am a bad a$$, far from it. I just say it from a place of authority and ownership).

What drives my actions with these type customers is the goal of the wash making money. Accordingly, all customers pay the price of mudders and trash dumping via higher prices. Just the way it is.