Triple Foam Unit Repair

[loewem]

I purchased a wash a couple of years ago and I have a carolina pride triple foam unit that has a Siemens Logo PLC that doesn't work. I have the unit working very well with one color, but I'd like to fix it so that it will provide three colors. I've checked into getting a new PLC from Carolina Pride, but it is fairly expensive. Before I spend the money on a new PLC I'd like to find out if I have any other options. I'm not very good with the electronics side of things, so I don't understand what I'll need if I choose to go in a different direction if it is even possible to do so. Can I by a different controller for the unit? If so, will I need a timer to go with it? My end goal is to have the unit work as well with three colors as I have it working with one color. At the same time I want to make understanding and repairing the unit as simple as possible. I've been able to break down a lot of the electronics (and most everything else) to the point where I can at least know when I need to call for help, but the triple foam unit looks overly complicated...don't want anything like that if I can help it. I can get pictures if necessary.

Thanks

Mike

 

[cantbreak80]

The Siemens LOGO! is a programmable logic relay. The base module provides 8 inputs and 4 outputs. Expansion modules add 4 more inputs and outputs.

If the module features an LCD display and curser buttons, it can be programmed without Siemens’ software. The module provides built-in timers, delays, ANDS, NANDS, ORS, NORS, etc. No external timers are needed.

An slightly less expensive alternative is Idec’s Smartrelay. It is exactly the same relabeled device. Idecs are easier to find from online retailers such as Allied electronics, Wolf Automation, etc. They can also be purchased new directly from the Idec website. Many of the earlier versions can be found on eBay.

The current LOGO! is the 0BA8 (Idec FL1E) These units can be connected to your computer via Ethernet cable. All previous versions require a special UBS-to-Module cable.

The software is ladder logic or Function Block. FB is easy to learn and simple to quickly program. You can download a trial version to learn how to program the PLR. However, you need to purchase the software language in order to transfer your program to the device.

http://us.idec.com/Catalog/ProductFamily.aspx?FamilyName=Programmable_Relays

These devices are quite robust and reliable...but they hate getting wet! For example, I have a 12 year old Idec controlling my water softener...and a 6 year old unit controlling my lp system's freeze protection.

 

[cantbreak80]

Alternatively, you could retrofit to the IDX MX48. Although a bit "spendy", they too are quite reliable
https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-12720-idx-multiplex-control-mx-48.aspx

 

[mac]

If this triple foam is used in the self serve bays, you can save yourself a ton of money by simply removing the system. I have NEVER seen a triple foam in a self serve make any money. Simply not used enough. If profit is your motivation, put in bay blowers.

 

[loewem]

Thanks for the helpful responses. Going to keep the unit as it gets used a lot, doesn't use a lot of product and the product is relatively inexpensive. So far I've only used left over product from my automatic, so it is a good way to use the last 1/2 gallon of a jug. Will be adding dryers and tire shine soon and have option spaces and had wiring pulled for them. I think I will try the programming option as I have other needs along those lines. While my needs are probably beyond me it would be cool to learn something and understand the process. Thanks again. Mike

 

[DiamondWash]

If this triple foam is used in the self serve bays, you can save yourself a ton of money by simply removing the system. I have NEVER seen a triple foam in a self serve make any money. Simply not used enough. If profit is your motivation, put in bay blowers.

Mac is right, triple foam isn't big with some customers why not change it to a Rain X applicator and market it that way, it would go well with in-bay dryers as well.

 

[loewem]

I appreciate your input and have given a lot of thought to getting rid of the triple foam unit, but I see it getting a lot of use. I've read many threads on the value of triple foam (what it actually does for the car and what it brings back in revenue). Worst case at this point I'd just leave it pumping one color and not put any money into getting it to pump three colors. I spend a lot of time at the wash on evenings and on weekends and I solicit feedback. There are people that swear by the triple foam and there are people who just like the show it gives. At least once a week I see customers letting their kids help wash their car and I'll give the parents a couple of tokens and tell them to let the kids use the triple foam. The kids love it, the parents appreciate the tokens and I see them using it again when they come back. I know from experience that the triple foam chemical goes a long way because it took a lot of effort to get it to spray well. I like the rainx idea, but the local distributor for rainx is an all or nothing distributor. I can't get rainx from them without using their other products. The chemical side of their operation is painful. Crazy expensive, they don't deliver on time, etc. It's the good stuff too (Blue Coral, Armor All, RainX), but it wasn't worth it to me for any price. I'll keep considering the value of everything in my wash over time. I've learned a lot from everyone on this forum and am working towards implementing what I've learned so far. I have twelve option - doors, but only had wires for eight options. I had new wire run and immediately added a bug and tar remover which is one of the best upgrades I've accomplished. I've got a spare low pressure manifold that I'm testing to use for tire shine and I'm itching to get dryers. Hope to have at least one dryer in the next couple of months. If you wouldn't mind telling me what you think...I currently have foaming tire brush, Low Pressure (LP) bug and tar remover, LP Pre-Soak, Foaming Brush, High Pressure (HP) Rinse, Triple Foam, HP Wax and Spot Free Rinse. If I add Tire Shine and Dryers I will have used up every option button on my doors. Thought would be appreciated. Thanks for your time and guidance. Mike

 

[washnshine]

I appreciate your input and have given a lot of thought to getting rid of the triple foam unit, but I see it getting a lot of use. I've read many threads on the value of triple foam (what it actually does for the car and what it brings back in revenue). Worst case at this point I'd just leave it pumping one color and not put any money into getting it to pump three colors. I spend a lot of time at the wash on evenings and on weekends and I solicit feedback. There are people that swear by the triple foam and there are people who just like the show it gives. At least once a week I see customers letting their kids help wash their car and I'll give the parents a couple of tokens and tell them to let the kids use the triple foam. The kids love it, the parents appreciate the tokens and I see them using it again when they come back. I know from experience that the triple foam chemical goes a long way because it took a lot of effort to get it to spray well. I like the rainx idea, but the local distributor for rainx is an all or nothing distributor. I can't get rainx from them without using their other products. The chemical side of their operation is painful. Crazy expensive, they don't deliver on time, etc. It's the good stuff too (Blue Coral, Armor All, RainX), but it wasn't worth it to me for any price. I'll keep considering the value of everything in my wash over time. I've learned a lot from everyone on this forum and am working towards implementing what I've learned so far. I have twelve option - doors, but only had wires for eight options. I had new wire run and immediately added a bug and tar remover which is one of the best upgrades I've accomplished. I've got a spare loww pressure manifold that I'm testing to use for tire shine and I'm itching to get dryers. Hope to have at least one dryer in the next couple of months. If you wouldn't mind telling me what you think...I currently have foaming tire brush, Low Pressure (LP) bug and tar remover, LP Pre-Soak, Foaming Brush, High Pressure (HP) Rinse, Triple Foam, HP Wax and Spot Free Rinse. If I add Tire Shine and Dryers I will have used up every option button on my doors. Thought would be appreciated. Thanks for your time and guidance. Mike

Do you have high pressure soap? That is a self serve staple. Other than that, you have a comprehensive offering. If you can't get rain X because of a distributor, you could always get simoniz hot wax from kleen rite, if you ever wanted to switch your foam gun to a premium sealant product. Good luck with the wash. Nice touch handing out tokens when you are on site - things like that go a long way.

 

[cantbreak80]

So, Mike,
What happened to the LOGO? They are typically very durable and don’t just lose the program. Is it dead? Are you sure it’s getting power? The power leads are marked P1 & P2 (the first 2 screw terminals on the top left). Carolina Pride probably fused the power lead.

The Inputs are the adjacent 8 terminals labeled I1-I8. The Outputs are the terminals on the bottom. Each #1 output terminal should have a constant 24v AC hot. The 3 product solenoids are connected to the Output (Q)#2 terminals. The Output relays are rated 10amps and have a life expectancy of at least one million cycles.

I my experience, the only ones that quit working were due to drowning or simply a loss of power. (Can’t fix the drowned ones!)

 

[pgrzes]

Wow I have triple foam splatter guns and triple foam brushes. They both get used tons!! I use same soap for both and we have people all the time splatter every inch of the car then foam brush them. I have 12 function selector doors so its nice to use all options and have people using count up on credit cards. Count up CC and blowers are the bomb!!! We continually see people try to blow every drop of water off the car.

 

[2Biz]

My Triple Foam is made by Dultmeier...It is rather simple and something you could convert over easily from a PLR setup. It consists of 4 cube relays (4 bay) that handles bay input and powers the motor relay latch. Then there is a small black box (I call a sequencer) that cycles the 3 liquid solenoids. It has a dial on it to change the time value between color changes. I have mine set on 10 seconds I believe. I'll try to get the P/N of the sequencer. Its not in the manual. Do you have a motor latching relay that runs the pump, or is your pump air driven?

 

[MEP001]

I can get you the Siemens LOGO! programmed for about $200. What does the Carolina Pride one cost?

I've also seen lots of use of the triple-foam system and wouldn't have a wash without one. About one in three customers use it and operational cost is maybe $300 a year.

 

[cantbreak80]

I'll do it for $198.

 

[MEP001]

You have a ladder program for a triple foam controller already? I can send you mine.

 

[cantbreak80]

Yeah, I've got 2 versions. Both allow owners to adjust the timing sequences when installed on the LCD LOGO/SmartRelay.
Version2 tracks the time used...total time and each bay's time. It works with the LCD display models or the 0BA8 with the webserver. Both can be adjusted to produce 6 colors.

Maybe we could compare programs and "steal" each others good ideas?

 

[MEP001]

Mine is very basic - my original version had the cycle start new each time it was selected but it was using more of the first color so I changed it where the color switch program part comes on with the unit powered up and the outputs are internally relayed to come on with a bay selected. I didn't bother making it adjustable, and it's always six colors.

 

[JamboWash]

Mine is very basic - my original version had the cycle start new each time it was selected but it was using more of the first color so I changed it where the color switch program part comes on with the unit powered up and the outputs are internally relayed to come on with a bay selected. I didn't bother making it adjustable, and it's always six colors.

Do you have two separate systems for the triple foam brush and triple foam conditioner ?

 

[MEP001]

The controller should work on either one.