Using Wind Shield Washer Fluid Vs. Straight Methanol for FB

[Randy]

Slash007
What you want to do is have 2 holding tank set-ups with Hydrominders. One for regular Foam brush soap, the other with antifreeze foam brush soap. Install a ball valve on the discharge of both tanks and connect them with hose to the inlet of the Flojet pump. When the temperature is above freezing open the regular foam brush soap ball valve and close the anti-freeze ball valve, when it below freezing close the regular foam brush soap tank valve and open the anti-freeze tank ball valve and turn On the foam brush out in the bays to purge out the regular foam brush soap and get the anti-freeze foam brush soap into the system. This kind of a poor man’s set up but it’ll work. Automating it is pretty simple, a Normally open solenoid valve and a Normally closed solenoid valve.

 

[Randy]

I'll have to think about how to get the purge to work.

 

[Rudy]

Now that makes more sense....

 

[slash007]

Slash007
What you want to do is have 2 holding tank set-ups with Hydrominders. One for regular Foam brush soap, the other with antifreeze foam brush soap. Install a ball valve on the discharge of both tanks and connect them with hose to the inlet of the Flojet pump. When the temperature is above freezing open the regular foam brush soap ball valve and close the anti-freeze ball valve, when it below freezing close the regular foam brush soap tank valve and open the anti-freeze tank ball valve and turn On the foam brush out in the bays to purge out the regular foam brush soap and get the anti-freeze foam brush soap into the system. This kind of a poor man’s set up but it’ll work. Automating it is pretty simple, a Normally open solenoid valve and a Normally closed solenoid valve.

That would make things easier, but like you said, it is a poor mans setup. I think that if I can automate the purge, then that would make it worth doing the extra work to set everything up. Is there a way to activate the FB in each bay from inside the ER? Going out to the bay is not a big deal, but it would make things easier.

In the meantime, I realized that the winter soap costs me the same as the regular, so what I'm going to do for now is just keep using the winter soap all winter and just switch to the smaller tip when it warms up. And in the meantime I will keep trying to figure out a better automated solution.

 

[2Biz]

I am going to resurrect this old thread since it is winter and there are usually lots of questions about how to keep the FB from freezing…Lots of good info in this thread.

Even though I don’t use methanol FB soap any more, the original poster wanted to know if you could use Washer fluid in place of methanol. Looking at this from a different angle than all of the replies, I am wondering if the washer fluid will work if mixed correctly with your FB soap?

I haven’t read this anywhere on the forum, so I’ll throw it out here. What if you set up a separate hydrominder like Randy Suggested for the winter mix. Except pump the washer fluid (with a flowjet) into the hydrominder instead of using water? You could use a 15 gallon or bigger tank to pump the washer fluid from. Then you could have the same size Tip for the FB soap as you use on the regular FB hydrominder. I did the math and the price is about a wash or maybe even a little cheaper if you dilute the -21 washer fluid. Remember, washer fluid is 30% methanol by volume. Soapy says 30% methanol gets you down to zero….But I think this is splitting hairs. Both are downright cold!

To take this a step further, you could automate the process by tapping into the secondary output on the weepmiser. You could add some relays, a timer, and an Erie 2 way valve ahead of the Flojet that pumps FB soap to the bays….

Again, just another way to skin this cat, even though I won’t be trying it. Lots of benefits if it will work!

Thoughts?

 

[MEP001]

More than once I've had a customer call early in the morning complaining that the foam brushes didn't work since they would freeze up, so whenever I anticipate a freeze I buy a few jugs of the cheap WalMart washer fluid, drain the foam brush tank empty and dump in about 4 gallons of washer fluid plus some blue trifoam soap and manually purge the lines. I use pink brush soap so the blue lets me know when the antifreeze is to the brush and when it's gone. It's not at all high-tech but it works - if it got cold more often I'd do something more sophisticated, but we haven't had an extended freeze in many years.

 

[Randy]

2Biz, I think you might be on to something. I never really looked at that way but it might work. I don’t know if a Flo-jet pump will pump out a steady enough stream to hook up to a 511 Hydrominder to draw up foam brush soap. My chemical stock tanks only hold 2 or 3 gallons, not much. I talked to one of my chemical suppliers today and he said that the winter foam brush soap will flash off and burn, its 90% methanol and 10% foam brush soap. He also said that the methanol will evaporate out of the soap and may cause problems. The washer fluid won’t burn. We just came out a 7 day period of cold weather, low 20’s at night and up into the high 30’s during the day. My weep system ran for almost 20 hours a day, I dump a lot of water to prevent freeze us, more than I probably should. It’s not so much the cost of the water, it’s only about $3 -$5 a day it’s the ice buildup that worries me. I need to stop procrastinating and finish my change over system.

 

[2Biz]

I think we’ve always been focused on substituting Methanol with WF in the soap and it just won’t work. Even with no tip at 4-1, the final mixture would be way too diluted to do any good. Everybody has a spare flojet and hydrominder. Wouldn’t be hard to set up and try. If I was still using methanol soap, I’d give it a try.

I believe hydrominders are somewhat restrictive anyway. So I’m thinking a flojet will pump the washer fluid fast enough to draw soap. You might have to change tip sizes depending on how well the soap draws. But once its set, it shouldn’t change. You could easily set the flojet and hydrominder up using water at first, then switch to washer fluid.

 

[MEP001]

Everybody has a spare flojet and hydrominder.

You would think so - you can't imagine the calls I get every day with someone in a panic because they don't have a spare part you and I would always keep on hand. I get worried when I only have one spare Flojet.

 

[2Biz]

That's funny, but probably true! I have 5 spare flojets, 2 new Hydrominders, and 4 old ones.....I've owned the wash 5 years now and have never replaced a flojet! I run 3 of them. If you have a spare the ones in service seem to last forever!

 

[Earl Weiss]

The list of spare stuff we need to keep or should keep is endless. Perhaps just have an entire spare wash

 

[MEP001]

The list of spare stuff we need to keep or should keep is endless. Perhaps just have an entire spare wash

I know three different guys who buy old equipment for the motors, contactors, transformers and pumps. They usually pay less for a 6-bay equipment set than one new motor, then whatever is trash they sell as scrap for beer money.

 

[pgrzes]

Been watching this post and others about WW fluid vs methanol. I dont use either, but I deal with a guy that sells methanol. he gets between $2-4 per gallon for race grade methanol. I can get a 55 gal drum delivered for $155 and pop in a bucket of my regular fb soap and go. I dont see how anyone is getting WW fluid cheaper. I would assume its all about finding a source for the methanol. WW fluid is just Methanol + water and coloring is it not? So I would check race gas suppliers and chemical suppliers for best price. Only downfall I see with the methanol is concern for fire. I always keep 10 or 15 gallons around for cleaning, removing decals and adhesive, fragrance for fragrance machine's and more. If you buy a methanol based mixes soap they are going to kill you on the price of it. Just trying to offer some help for guys that may be overpaying for soaps. Not trying to bash anyone,

 

[2Biz]

pgrzes, I totally agree with you. But a lot of operators don't have access to Methanol locally or even within driving distance. And it is very expensive to have shipped in. You touched on the dangers of having it "Undiluted" in the ER, another reason to explore WF further.

That's why I wanted to share my idea...And you are right, WF is 70% water and 30% methanol. I believe it is completely safe. I tried to ignite it and I couldn't get it to burn..Winter WF can be purchased anywhere, so it is easy to obtain.... I have even seen it advertised on websites that deliver 55 gallon drums to auto parts stores for cheap....Like a little over a dollar a gallon...But that was a few years ago.

Penciling it out, (If it works) it appears to be about the same or maybe a little cheaper than using methanol. Especially for the guys that only have access to 5 gallon pails of premixed methanol and soap. If I used methanol and wanted to try something different for whatever reason, I would give this a try. I really don't see why it won't work...