Using Wind Shield Washer Fluid Vs. Straight Methanol for FB

[washregal]

I am curious if anyone has used windshield washer fluid instead of methanol for their Foam Brush purge? I have been using methanol with a black tip the past few winters wich is very costly.

As of now methanol in a 55 gallon drum runs me 240.00 to 250.00 per drum delivered.

I can purchase 1 ga jugs of windshield washer fluid for 1.99 at Walmart - Hoping to get a better deal if I buy in bulk. This would save me about 100.00 per drum if I bought 55 gallons of windshield washer fluid.

Has anyone used this with FB soap before how does it work out - Looking for some advice on this as I am ready to take the plunge again $$ this year for the winter season - it would be great if I could save a few $$.

 

[cantbreak80]

I've been using washer fluid for at least 5 years to protect my Foam Brushes and Foam Guns. Temp last night was below zero. Nothing's frozen this morning! I buy cases at Sam's Club and keep a 15gal container filled. My Fire Marshal frowns on me having more than that in the equipment room. I can just imagine his expression if I had a 55 of methanol! If he ever threatens me with a fine, I'll switch to PG...a bit more expensive but at least he'll stay off my back.

 

[washregal]

Cantbreak80....

How cold do you get in the winter.. most washer fluid states it will go to - 20.. Thinking if I use a black tip I should be ok. Also have you had any issues mixing the Wind Shield washer fluid with your Foam Brush soap? Any coagulation of product?

I guess I am lucky to be allowed to store methanol in larger qty without issue.. Just costs me an arm and a leg - If I can switch to washer fluid I think I am going to...might be much cheaper in the long run. How much is it per gallon at Sams club?

 

[cantbreak80]

Cantbreak80....

How cold do you get in the winter.. most washer fluid states it will go to - 20.. Thinking if I use a black tip I should be ok. Also have you had any issues mixing the Wind Shield washer fluid with your Foam Brush soap? Any coagulation of product?

I guess I am lucky to be allowed to store methanol in larger qty without issue.. Just costs me an arm and a leg - If I can switch to washer fluid I think I am going to...might be much cheaper in the long run. How much is it per gallon at Sams club?

Have you seen the news about the "cold snap" in Denver? My thermometer showed -5 at my house this morning.

I have a different method. Instead of a product "additive", my system introduces RTU washer fluid into the exposed plumbing/hoses. In operation, When temps approach freezing, each exposed bit of plumbing is evacuated and a small amount of washer fluid is introduced. Repeat after each use. It requires equipment and plumbing modifications along with some sort of controller (Timers, PLC, Logic Relay).

So...I'm not a good responder... 'cause "I got no similar experience "

 

[cantbreak80]

How much is it per gallon at Sams club?

$1.94/gallon
6 gallons per case

 

[washregal]

I know about your system. I run my FB purge off my dixmore weepmizer. The system purges at about 33 degF.. and runs a methanol / soap mixture constantly until temps go above that 33 deg mark.

If my temps stay below that 22 for a long period of time it costs me big.. if I am running straight methanol. Would be great if teh Wind Shield Washer would be a solution to this problem.

 

[Randy]

Are you mixing methanol with foam brush soap and then using your Weepmizer to change over from regular foam brush to the methanol mix? Or are you using the methanol to purge the system after each use or cycle? If you’re doing the later the -22 deg. washer fluid will work.

 

[washregal]

Hi Randy -

I am actually doing the former..mixing methanol with foam brush soap and then using your Weepmizer to change over from regular foam brush to the methanol mix. Instead of using methanol - I was hoping to mix my foam brush soap with the windshield washer fluid. Do you think this will work as well?

 

[Randy]

I don’t think what you want to do will work. The windshield washer fluid is already diluted and adding foam brush soap to it will dilute it further. I don’t recall what the freezing point of straight methanol is but it’s pretty low, I think it’s around -145 deg. How many barrels of pure methanol do you use a winter? Do you have a tester to test your mix when it’s mixed and ready to use?

 

[2Biz]

Like Randy, I don't think that will work. Haven't tried it but in theory, you'd have to use 70% more of it compared to methanol to get the same results. -22° washer fluid is only 30% methanol per volume.

 

[2Biz]

Also...I don't know where your located, but when I used methanol mixed with FB and TF, I used a beige tip...8-1....Black tip is 6-1....I never had a freezeup using beige....Using Beige instead of Black would save you 25%....I live in Southern Ohio...

You could always install a system like CB80 and I run so you could use washer fluid!

 

[Ric]

We use methonal foam brush soap to purge with. Although windshield washer fluid is cheaper per gallon, you would have to run it straight or mix it very strong with water to make it work. In the long run for us it is cheaper to mix the more expensive methanol foam brush soap at 8:1 or even lower.

 

[washregal]

I go through a couple of 55's per season.. I black tip my Methanol - Thinking maybe I could tip this down to Red? if I am running straight methanol.

Hoping to save some money at the wash this winter...

 

[Randy]

I go through a couple of 55's per season.. I black tip my Methanol - Thinking maybe I could tip this down to Red? if I am running straight methanol.

Hoping to save some money at the wash this winter...

How much foam brush soap are you adding to the 55 gallons drum of methanol? What I don’t like the methanol antifreeze foam soap is you have to keep playing with Hydrominder tip sizes as the temperature changes. A black tip seems like a pretty large tip when the temperature is 25 deg. Do you have a antifreeze tester, something like this https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-23722-hydrometer-for-antifreeze.aspx

 

[robert roman]

Methanol is a poor choice.

Not only is it extremely toxic, a couple of ounces ingested can kill, its significantly more volatile than gasoline and you can’t see the flames.

Weep system is a lot safer as is blow-down system and non-VOC alternatives.

Why risk your life and store to save a couple of bucks.

Moreover, there are now pilot studies floating around that people in cars may be exposed to methanol when windshield washer fluid and wash water with methanol drains into the vents.

 

[2Biz]

its significantly more volatile than gasoline and you can’t see the flames.

That's interesting...Every report I found online says Gasoline is far more volatile than 100% pure methanol. Methanol has 1/2 the energy as gasoline. That's why the octane level drops when its mixed with gasoline. Plus every car on the road has washer fluid under the hood. Have you ever tried to ignite washer fluid? I'm not arguing the point of it being toxic. So is the rest of the chemicals we use.

 

[Twodose]

I’m curious because in my wash the foam brushes don’t get used much when it is below about 20°, when it gets below that, they are not being used much at all and the AFFB is basically being used to purge the lines so they don’t freeze. I have a D/H twin tank that changes over to AFFB at 34° or so. I have 10 bays total in 2 washes and I purchase 8-15 gallon drums of methanol FB for the winter and I usually have a couple left over from the winter season. I purchase from Warsaw Chemical @ 63.00 for a 15 gal. drum. So my cost is about $500.00 for the season. So I use at 5:1 and don’t worry about it.

 

[Twodose]

Also i agree with Robert Roman that with pure methanol if it was to ignite, you won't be able to see the flame.

 

[robert roman]

Alcohol (i.e. ethanol and methanol) “increases” the octane of gasoline it is blended with.

This allows gasoline powered engines to run lean and reduce tailpipe emissions by around 10 percent.

Alcohols also increase the Reid vapor pressure (RVP) of gasoline it is blended with.

RVP measures volatility (i.e. evaporation). Ethanol has RVP 2.3 PSI, methanol is 4.6 PSI and gasoline is 9.0 PSI.

10 percent ethanol increases RVP of gasoline by 0.5 PSI. So, 10 percent blend of methanol would increase RVP of gas by 1.0 PSI.

This is why methanol blends are not widely accepted in U.S.

At a refinery, each barrel of methanol added to gasoline supplies can yield as much as 2.4 additional barrels of gasoline.

No matter, storing 55 gallon drum of methanol (or gasoline) in wash mechanical room is unsafe for employees and customers.

 

[2Biz]

Not arguing the point..... 100% pure methanol IS flamable. Another reason to consider washer fluid, only use it differently. But you'll have to add the necessary equipment to administer it properly. Using it mixed with FB soap isn't going to work. 70% of it is water before mixing it with the Hydrominder. I used to use pure methanol (Well not pure, 2 qts of FB soap was mixed with 4.5 gallons of methanol) mixed at 8-1 with the hydrominder. After doing that for a few years, I mainly switched over to Blowout-WWF purge-Blowout to keep from having to switch back and forth from regular FB soap and Methanol soap. It saves money and is extremely effective.

Just this morning, I tried to ignite -22° WWF and it wouldn't ignite with a lighter holding the flame directly to the WWF. So how flamable is it really? I believe if it was that flamable, you wouldn't see it stored in plastic containers that almost always gets ruptured in a front end collision in a car!