Wall pack wiring question.

[I.B. Washincars]

I have a couple of Lithonia wall packs that are wired for 208 voltage so I have two hot wires and a ground in the llight. I want to switch to a 120 volt CFL that I am using in a lot of my other fixtures. I don't think I have a neutral that I can easily access to piggyback. Can I just use that ground that is already at the light for a neutral or is that a no-no?

 

[robblackburn]

I have a couple of Lithonia wall packs that are wired for 208 voltage so I have two hot wires and a ground in the llight. I want to switch to a 120 volt CFL that I am using in a lot of my other fixtures. I don't think I have a neutral that I can easily access to piggyback. Can I just use that ground that is already at the light for a neutral or is that a no-no?

Hey Pat -
I have been doing the same with CFL bulbs. I have done the wiring like you describe by just using one of the wires and a gound from 120v. However, I think it is best to leave the wiring alone and just get a CFL bulb for 208 voltage and it is probably a little cheaper to run this way and you do not have to change the wiring. The bulb I am using is for 277V and 42w and they also use a 65w and I use this if it fits in the fixture.
Rob

 

[I.B. Washincars]

I am not going to get a 208V CFL bulb for just these two fixtures. That would cause me to need yet another different spare bulb. I am going to either put in the CFL that I am using elsewhere or leave them MH as they are. So I can just use that existing ground and be ok if I wire them 120V?

 

[2Biz]

What you're wanting to do is a no-no. Those wires are hooked to a double pole breaker in your box. It wouldn't trip if you had an issue. Plus, Your fixture would not be grounded. If you have three wires going to the fixture, you can still do what you want. Just make sure you switch the wires in the panel to a 120v breaker for load, and then the other two go to common and ground accordingly.

 

[MEP001]

I understand that it's a no-no as far as electrical code, but look in your breaker box. The common wires and the ground wires all eventually connect to the same lug. It will work, but it won't be "to code".

 

[Camp4042]

I had the same problem with my bay lights. You have to change the breaker in the panel to 120v. The only 2 cfls they make are either 120v or 277v. We changed the breakers in our panel to 120. Its not bad to do but you have to make sure you have room in your panel to do it.

 

[I.B. Washincars]

What you're wanting to do is a no-no. Those wires are hooked to a double pole breaker in your box. It wouldn't trip if you had an issue. Plus, Your fixture would not be grounded. If you have three wires going to the fixture, you can still do what you want. Just make sure you switch the wires in the panel to a 120v breaker for load, and then the other two go to common and ground accordingly.

I don't think I can swap out the breaker because it is shared with some other 208V lights that I am not going swap out.

I do understand that the fixture wouldn't be grounded, just didn't know if that was a huge deal.

I didn't know about needing to change to a single pole breaker. I have already changed out a couple of circuits full of lights and just left the one pole empty. I assumed that if either circuit on a two pole breaker developed a short it would trip. I assumed the same would apply if one wire just wasn't there. Is that not correct? It's no issue for me to swap out the breaker, but I just didn't see a need.

While I'm at it, what amp breaker should I use. One circuit has 9 - 105W CFLs, the other has 8. I have two more circuits left to do that will have 6 each.

 

[MEP001]

If you're running 110V stuff off a 2-pole breaker and there's a short, it will still trip that leg, and it will shut off the other side. The only difference between a single-pole and a 2-pole breaker is a piece of metal attaching the two levers together. I've seen electrical stuff pass inspection where the electricians ran a piece of wire through the levers of two single-pole breakers to connect them together and make it a 2-pole.

As far as being grounded, if the fixture is screwed to metal it's grounded. It's not to code but if it's out of reach of your customers it's not a hazard.

While I'm at it, what amp breaker should I use. One circuit has 9 - 105W CFLs, the other has 8. I have two more circuits left to do that will have 6 each.

Nine 105W lights is less than 15A - that or 20A would be good.

 

[washnvac]

Those 105 watt cfls just went up in price to $32.52. I paid on $17 a few months ago. That makes the payback not quite as good. I figured a $40 yearly savings over 175 mh. But the bulb life is only 8000 hours; a little less than 2 years on a 12 hour +/- daily burn.

Some bs about rare earth materials.

 

[2Biz]

Yea....I was checking last night at 1000bulbs.com and the 85w cfl's I bought in March went from $15.99 ea. to $27.97 ea. Thats a huge increase in 6 months!

 

[I.B. Washincars]

Wow! The 105 CFL that I used went up almost 10 bucks per bulb as well. I have bought 76 of them so far, but luckily only need 3 or 4 more to finish up. On the flip side, the astronomic timer that I bought in April for $191 is now $120 and I need 4 more of them. I wonder why the wild price swings? I'm hoping by the time these bulbs need replacing there will be lots of competition and the prices will come back down.

 

[2Biz]

I'm hoping by the time these bulbs need replacing there will be lots of competition and the prices will come back down.

Thats exactly what I was thinking. I did a search online for the same bulb I used and couldn't find it for less than $26 bucks. I would also like to know what caused this huge price swing in such a short amount of time.

 

[2Biz]

Answer to my own question...Read this:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/China-Consolidates-Grip-on-nytimes-2650144197.html?x=0&.v=1

 

[Wash-it]

No no

Using the ground wire for a neutral is ALWAYS a NO NO... Let me explain why. Ground wires or (grounding conductor) is exactly that, a grounding conductor. Grounding conductors are used to protect against electrical shock. If you use this wire to complete a 120v circuit, you are using it as a current carrying conductor. If the circuit or light is on and someone lifts the ground at the panel or at any junction box they can get shocked or even electrocuted. The grounding conductor is used to ground any metal or conductive material that may become energized. That is why sparks happen when you touch a current carrying conductor to a metal housing on a box, light, or the like. An enclosure without a proper ground can become energized and shock the crap out of you or worse..... The two pole breaker will still trip if only one leg has overload or short. But, what should be done is,,, change the breaker to a single pole sized for the circut and pull a properly sized white wire in by using one of the wires on the existing two pole breaker and terminate it to the neutral bar and to the common on the light fixture. Or you could always have a professional electrician do it.

 

[Wash-it]

Fire Hazzard

Oh yea, as far as the breaker size question goes, that will depend on the wire size that you are going to be putting on the breaker. If you put an oversized breaker on an undersized wire you can end up with a "heating element" effect and the wire can burn up.... Kinda like in an electric oven element. This is where fires will happen. 12ga on 20amp.... 10ga on 30amp will work just fine.