wand was taped and it flew out and damaged car....what to do?

[coincarwash.ca]

The gun in my self serve bay was taped with the trigger in the pulled position and when customer inserted money it flew out of holder and damaged the customers car....what should I do....he is saying its my fault, however he did not have gun in his hand prior to inserting money. I have not responded to his message yet....opinions please.

 

[I.B. Washincars]

I don't think it is your fault, but it's not his either. I don't see where you have any choice but to pay for the damage. If you figure out who taped the trigger, you could pursue them. Long story short, your wash damaged his car

 

[Earl Weiss]

Legal liability is based upon whether a party was negligent -
"Negligence
Conduct that falls below the standards of behavior established by law for the protection of others against unreasonable risk of harm. A person has acted negligently if he or she has departed from the conduct expected of a reasonably prudent person acting under similar circumstances."

If I were the judge i would rule:

It is not reasonable to expect a car wash owner to inspect all equipment after each use to see if someone misused it which might damage someone elses property. The sole proximate cause of the damage was the user who taped the gun. - NOT LIABLE.

Sadly I am not the judge. Perhaps you have cameras that might reveal the culprit?

 

[robert roman]

I’m not a judge, but I have been involved in enough legal matters to suggest paying for the damage and moving on.

Gun with tapped trigger is not how the device was designed to be stored in holster or operated nor is taping trigger closed an industry best practice.

So, store owner would be responsible regardless if taping was caused by prior customer or attendant (employee) for that matter.

Analogy is ice. Owner has responsibility to ensure ice is not slip and fall risk for customers and employees.

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

My gut agrees with IB, my head agrees with Earl.
btw, nicely worded Earl.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Gun with tapped trigger is not how the device was designed to be stored in holster or operated nor is taping trigger closed an industry best practice.

So, store owner would be responsible regardless if taping was caused by prior customer or attendant (employee) for that matter.

Analogy is ice. Owner has responsibility to ensure ice is not slip and fall risk for customers and employees.

Analogy Fails. Ice is foreseeable and normal condition not caused by negligent / reckless act of third party. Even slippery conditions may not render wash owner liable due to exceptions which vary vis a vis, Open and obvious risk, Natural accumulation, Assumption of risk etc.

I have had a person not put car in neutral and bump another car in tunnel. Sometimes when they exit offender drives off. Bumped car tries to get me to fix their damage. I give them license # of offending vehicle if it can be seen on video. (In one case cops went a got offender). Sometimes driver that got bumped believes I am responsible because it happened on my property. I asked them if they thought the grocery store was responsible if someone bumped them in the parking lot. (I now ask if the city is responsible if someone bumps them on the street) One person said "Yes" I told them to go to whoever gave them their legal education and ask for their money back because they were taught wrong.

Once had a lawyer send me a letter (amazing how little many lawyers know of how a car wash conveyor operates) with all sorts of BS theories as to why I was liable. I invited him to file suit and I would request that fees be awarded to me for bad faith filing. (I also guessed he must have had some relationship with the customer because his office was quite some distance - different county - from where the wash and customer were located.

 

[rph9168]

My gut agrees with IB, my head agrees with Earl.
btw, nicely worded Earl.

I have to agree. I would not pay. Sometimes it seems convenient to just pay the bill but I think that people want to take advantage of an operator for their own negligence. I would say the vast majority of customers have the wand in their hand before attempting to use it. I also wonder if their is a video to see who taped the wand. Could be the customer did it themself. In any case I would not pay for someone else's negligence.

 

[MEP001]

If you have any wording on the signage that says "Hold wand in hand before inserting coins" or the like, you've fulfilled your obligation as far as diligence. I'd have to agree that paying for the damage in good faith might be the best course for a happy customer, but what if he did it? What if he spreads the word that you're an easy mark for a damage claim? I've had that happen with refunds years ago when I was an attendant and was instructed to give them money back no questions asked. In a month it went from one every few weeks to 5 or 6 a day, and almost all of them were BS.

 

[MEP001]

I would say the vast majority of customers have the wand in their hand before attempting to use it.

Maybe in your neck of the woods, but I've watched them here and they don't. Maybe one in 50 does, and it's stated to do so on the menu sign. In fact it's only on the sign as a remnant of triggerless guns. I was just about to have some custom ones made and thought about leaving that part off, but now I think I'll leave it on for exactly this reason.

 

[rph9168]

Maybe in your neck of the woods, but I've watched them here and they don't. Maybe one in 50 does, and it's stated to do so on the menu sign. In fact it's only on the sign as a remnant of triggerless guns. I was just about to have some custom ones made and thought about leaving that part off, but now I think I'll leave it on for exactly this reason.

I had the same thought about the guy may be the same one that did the taping but without a video that would be hard to prove. Just about all the customers in our area hold the wand before engaging it and in many other areas of the country I have been to do as well. Most bay signs I have seen or designed always included that information. Never will understand why someone would turn on a high pressure wand without holding it in their hand but it takes all kinds. I can somewhat understand it with a foam brush because there is very little pressure but not a wand. Guess common sense is in short supply in your area.

 

[Ghetto Wash]

Legal liability is based upon whether a party was negligent -
"Negligence
Conduct that falls below the standards of behavior established by law for the protection of others against unreasonable risk of harm. A person has acted negligently if he or she has departed from the conduct expected of a reasonably prudent person acting under similar circumstances."

If I were the judge i would rule:

It is not reasonable to expect a car wash owner to inspect all equipment after each use to see if someone misused it which might damage someone elses property. The sole proximate cause of the damage was the user who taped the gun. - NOT LIABLE.

Sadly I am not the judge. Perhaps you have cameras that might reveal the culprit?

I'm on Earl's side also. My attendant has a daily check list that he goes down and signs each day. On that list is "wipe down meter boxes and guns" With this daily inspection documented, I think I'd be in the clear if this happened to me.

 

[mjwalsh]

Like others have said, it would be helpful to have video footage.

The struggle ... especially with our closed doors during the winter is to keep the lens so it has a clear path without surface water droplets &/or some fogginess created from temperature differences in the air. We are tempted to resurrect the windshield wipers somehow on our original Panasonic camera housings & maybe come up with a remote way of wiping the glass on the housings.

For camera footage to identify the exact person &/or license plate, including the actual act of possibly an extremely quick taping process seems like easier said than done. Maybe some other operators have found a better way for their bays that need to have their doors closed because of too cold of weather.

mike walsh www.kingkoin.com

 

[MEP001]

Tape a dollar coin over the camera lens, that will keep the fog off them.

 

[I.B. Washincars]

Tape a dollar coin over the camera lens, that will keep the fog off them.

Now MEP, behave. Mike has definitely gotten better about not wedging his dollar coin crusade in every unrelated conversation. I'm sure it's tough for him. I gotta admit, I got a pretty good chuckle out of it though.

 

[mjwalsh]

Just to add to the water droplet affecting for a not a clear enough image (from the in bay camera) for those of us where the overhead doors are a must: Maybe a sensor could automatically trigger the small windshield wiper along with full remote capability.

It sure would be nice to hold the rascals who would tape our trigger guns ... with properly placed liability ... & without a clear enough image ... the odds are not in our favor.

mike walsh www.kingkoin.com

 

[Waxman]

how much damage was caused? $250? $500? $1000? I'd start there. All car washes should have a good working relationship with a body shop or two.

 

[HCW]

Pay for it and move on. Invest in a surveillance cameras system and you'll be in good shape. Just yesterday I payed for a mirror that broke in the IBA.

 

[pgrzes]

I have watched this thread for a while and my thought was,? How high is your pressure set on your guns?? I run at about 1100 and the gun won't fly out and hit anything. They will slide across the floor but not enough power to cause any damage aside from soaking people. Anyhow I just put a new 1080p hd Lorex system in with 1 camera at each end of every bay. I can get tags and all events in every bay always.

 

[Randy]

A few years ago we got some defective guns that would stay full on after the trigger was pulled. They would fly out of the gun holder at 1200 psi. We had a couple of complaints of flying guns hitting cars. We'd give them a a handful of tokens and call it good. Naturally the supplier denied that there was a problem with the guns.

 

[mjwalsh]

I have watched this thread for a while and my thought was,? How high is your pressure set on your guns?? I run at about 1100 and the gun won't fly out and hit anything. They will slide across the floor but not enough power to cause any damage aside from soaking people. Anyhow I just put a new 1080p hd Lorex system in with 1 camera at each end of every bay. I can get tags and all events in every bay always.

I still say that even with our cameras at the end of bay ... in areas where overhead doors are must ... water droplets could be a problem showing the finer detail of a rascal quickly taping the wand trigger.