Water leaking from wand in bay when not in use

[RealScott]

Hello All!

First post here. I bought a run down 5 bay SS 6 months ago, my first wash, and have been rehabbing it. I have 90% of the gremlins out of the wash, a lot due to all of the amazing knowledge you all have on this forum! Thank you!!!!

Equipment is all the old Mark VII Proline (the next one will get all new equipment from the start). I have two bays that are leaking water out of the wands when they are not in use. If I turn off the cold water main line into the pump, the leak stops. Any thoughts on what this could be? I cannot seem to get a straight answer from anyone local on what valve or where the last "water stop" point is. I have been told it's the pump, the unloader and the hot/cold mixing valve (Erie Valve?). Does anyone here know where I should start looking to diagnose this issue?

Oh, I completely shut off the Weepmizer and all the individual weep needle valves and it still happens.

While I'm at it, can anyone tell me how those Erie Valves http://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/c-115-erie.aspx are supposed to function? I'm not sure that any of them are working properly as far as hot/cold mixing goes.

 

[2Biz]

I have the exact same equipment but don't have that problem. Try holding the gun tip above the water level in the gravity feed tanks. If the flow stops, you have a syphon problem. You might need to put a syphon break above the bay in the HP line.

I doubt if any of my Erie valves work either. I don't run hot water so its been a mute point up to now. This is the worst thing about the Proline Equipment is that it is so difficult to work on. I've been slowly revamping the plumbing and hope to do away with the gravity feed system soon...

Basically the Erie valves has a flap that opens/closes between the hot/cold supply. The flap is motor driven. The valve will not hold back much pressure and is mainly designed for gravity feed systems. The plus side of these valves is you can never starve your pumps of water....If you change one of them out, let me know how it went! I don't even want to go there!

 

[MikeV]

Hi Scott, I had the same problem, my equipment room is elevated as it is in a flood zone. Water constantly dripped from the guns. The solution...install a check valve open at the "in" side above the boom in line with the bay hose. When the bay is shut off, the water down flow will open the check valve and break the siphon.

 

[cantbreak80]

The Giant yellow spring unloader has a spring loaded outlet valve…basically, a low pressure check valve. When the pump is idle, the unloader’s outlet valve closes. Since the system is gravity fed, that outlet valve should stop the siphon.

Most likely, the outlet valve’s o-ring or spring is broken.
Look at #12, 14, and 14a in this parts explosion:
http://www.giantpumps.com/accessoriespages/pumpmanuals/22912A.pdf

 

[I.B. Washincars]

I have the same system and IIRC those parts are supposed to be removed when using that unloader.

 

[2Biz]

I use the 22911A (Yellow Spring).

I.B. I don't recall seeing those parts when rebuilding this unloader. I've done several...Do you remove those parts or are they already removed?

The new ones I bought seem to work like the old ones, only better of course!!! I've replaced all (4) in the past 2.5 yrs...The ones I took out looked like they were in there 20+ years. Even the yellow paint was gone off the springs.

 

[RealScott]

MikeV I have equipment room on second floor as well. Did all of your bays leak or just a couple? Do you happen to have a part number for the check valve you used?

CB80 I have replaced, with new, one of the unloaders for the bays that are leaking, also the yellow ones. I guess that's not to say that it's not bad or defective already. I have been rebuilding others. I will rebuild the other bay unloader that is leaking and see what it does.

2biz I will let you know if I replace one of them. I have been resisting this one as well. They are so deep in the plumbing jungle....

 

[2Biz]

Now we know the rest of the story! Your ER is on the second floor?!?!?!? Interesting....Your problem is then amplified since your wand is so much lower than your mix tanks.. I think I've read all you need is a check valve tee'd into the hp line right above the bay to keep from syphoning. One with a low cracking pressure but able to withstand 1200-1500 psi.

I know what you mean about the "Plumbing Jungle"...I've called it worse! That's why I'm getting parts together to do away with the jungle and go with city pressure. Seems to me the way to go...I bought the wash with the HW boiler not working. It would be a nightmare to get the current HW system running with a new boiler. That's why I've decided to switch the whole thing over. It will do away with the Erie valves and all the plumbing under and behind the pumps.

 

[cantbreak80]

As noted on the linked parts explosion, the outlet valve is included in the 22911A Unloader and excluded from the 22911AR Regulator.

Now...it's been awhile...but every MkVII Proline system I've ever worked on had issues with siphoning IF the Unloader outlet valve o-ring or spring was broken or, an add-on check valve was not installed in the downstream plumbing.

Because it serves as the weep system check valve, Unloader outlet valve o-ring failure is also the cause of MkVII Proline overflowing rinse water tanks during weep season.

 

[MEP001]

If the tanks are higher than the booms, adding a check valve above the boom as a siphon check won't work.

 

[2Biz]

If the tanks are higher than the booms, adding a check valve above the boom as a siphon check won't work.

Good point! It always helps to have as much information up front as possible.

 

[RealScott]

Yes, sorry I was not meaning to withhold pertinent info, ER is on 2nd floor. One of the bays that are leaking, the mixing tanks ARE ABOVE the booms. The second bay that is leaking the tanks ARE BELOW the booms. Does that clear it up?

 

[MikeV]

Scott, all my bays siphoned. When I added the check valve, that took care of the problem. By feed tank is not highter than the booms so the check valve worked for me. Just a 1/4" low crack check valve that I got from Car Wash Supply here in Houston.