Water rates again!!! math involved

[Indiana Wash]

Ok, after a 30% raise in the sewer rates two years ago. The city is raising water and sewer rates by another 30%. That puts my

Water and Sewer rate = $10.50 per 1000 gallons.


I have RO reject reclaim. Is there anything else anyone would suggest?

Should I start considering a reclaim system?

How cost effective would it be to install a sewer meter at my cost if we assume that at least 20% of the water does not go down the drain? My average water usage is 100,000-150,000 gallons a month depending on the year. The sewer is 70% of my bill.

How expensive would it be to buy and have a sewer meter installed???

 

[Jim L.]

Dig your own water well if you can.

http://forum.autocareforum.com/showthread.php?t=8661

 

[robert roman]

Going back through two 30 percent rate hikes means initial rate was $6.22 per 1,000 gallons.

$10.50 - $6.22 = $4.28

(($4.28 * (125,000 * 12) / 1,000)) = $6,420

This calculation indicates your average annual water/sewer bill would increase by $6,420.

This equals $19,260 over three years and $32,100 over five years, not counting the possibility of additional rate change – most likely increasing, not decreasing.

I’m not sure what benefit a water meter may provide but it sure looks like reclaim should be a consideration.

 

[SqueakyClean]

Indiana Wash

Have you shown you water people the studies of the carry off of the water for car washes. It helped us out, They reduced the sewer side of the bill. Now only if they could read the water meter right the first time it would be great.

 

[Ric]

Indiana Wash

Have you shown you water people the studies of the carry off of the water for car washes. It helped us out, They reduced the sewer side of the bill. Now only if they could read the water meter right the first time it would be great.

I'm familiar with the "Water Down The Drain" article written in the SSCWN many years ago. Are there any other studies available?

 

[Buzzie8]

I had the same experience and my rates are now about $2.00 higher per 1,000 gallons than yours are. My top wash also uses about 125 gallons of water. I installed reclaim about two years ago for about $55k. The monthly lease cost makes the reclaim savings about break even but should be a good deal after lease is paid off in three years. Still using fresh water for one rinse, clear coat application and spot free though. I did a cost savings analysis chart before and after reclaim. I will try to post it.

 

[Greg Pack]

Yeah, be careful with reclaim especially if you are touch free. My brief experience with it (admittedly nine years ago) was the reclaim "tail" wanted to wag the carwash "dog". Every time I had a cleaning issue, the whole subject of reclaim and what impact it might have came up.

Don't forget the service costs of the unit, a lot of systems run a recirc pump continuously. I think mine worked out to a couple hundred buck a month in additional electrical. Some have filter bags you have to change weekly. Will your current chemistry work? Reclaim compatible can be more expensive. You will also have to clean your walls and equipment more often..

Hopefully it has gotten better, and it would be a lot easier to agree to it if i had a friction unit exclusively.

 

[rph9168]

All good points. Operation costs like filter bags and more expensive chemicals and maintenance items are often really hidden expenses as well as the constant maintenance many systems require to run efficiently. Another issue is how the system treats the water for odor. Ozone treatment seems to work the best but it has to be sized properly to your system or it will not do the job.

If you do choose to go to reclaim make sure to visit sites where they are using the same type of reclaim system you are considering and talk to the owner. As a rule of thumb the cheaper the system the less efficient it is so be careful when considering cost. Paying a lot for a system doesn't insure the best equipment but skimping on one will almost certainly mean a system that will not meet your needs and cause problems.

Finally from my experience if you do not do a relatively high volume for an automatic it will be a long time before the system pays for itself especially if you consider operating and maintenance costs. While I am not recommending that you don't do it I am saying study all the angles before making your choice.

 

[SqueakyClean]

We showed the the study that the ICA did

http://www.carwash.org/operatorinformation/research/Pages/EnvironmentalReports.aspx

and if you did put in a reclaim i would also show then the "show" numbers of the water that will be "saved"

 

[robert roman]

Since I was the only one who provided you with any “math,” I’ve shown you will absorb at least $32,100 in additional operating expense over five years if you do nothing.

Since a reclaim system is not an income producing asset, the break-even point is when cost savings equals the total purchase cost.

Given your volume of water, figure $20,000 for a system, installed.

Since $20,000 is less than $32,100, your pay-back period will be less than five years.

 

[Indiana Wash]

I did go to the City. My plea for a reasonable reduction in sewer rates fell on deaf ears. They said that if they gave me a reduction, they would have to give one to everyone. The Mayor also said that no other municipalities give reductions in sewer bills to car washes. She checked "personally".

I thought that if I went in and offered to install a sewer meter at my own expense, how could they say no? I have no idea what it would cost but most studies show that 20-30% of water does not go down the drain.

Anyone have an idea what it would cost to install a sewer meter?

 

[pitzerwm]

Bear in mind that "we" are their only source of revenue. They could care less if you don't use all that you are entitled to.

 

[Buzzie8]

Since I was the only one who provided you with any “math,” I’ve shown you will absorb at least $32,100 in additional operating expense over five years if you do nothing.

Since a reclaim system is not an income producing asset, the break-even point is when cost savings equals the total purchase cost.

Given your volume of water, figure $20,000 for a system, installed.

Since $20,000 is less than $32,100, your pay-back period will be less than five years.

$20k to get system installed? You better already have tanks in the ground. My pump stand alone cost $26k.

 

[robert roman]

I couldn’t possibly dispute the cost of your stand.

However, I am looking at a quote for reclaim system for a fast in-bay and the unit is priced at $13,000.

Let’s get back to - How could they say no?

It depends on the situation and it can be quite easy.

Why did the authority increase the water and sewer rates?

Was it to generate dollars because of lower property taxes?

Is it to finance storm or sanitary sewers because the authority can’t float a bond?

Is it to cover the increasing cost to produce fresh water and dispose waste water?

When fee rates rise at the level you mentioned, the reason is usually number three.

If number three, most likely you have more increases coming, next year or year after.

Besides increasing cost to buy water/sewer, when there is a shortage in the supply of potable water, for whatever reason, the authority’s first and overriding obligation is to protect the health and welfare of the general public.

Under this pretense, the authority can invoke more stringent regulation of fresh water use.

The first stage of control usually involves “curbing - lowering” non-essential fresh water use like lawn watering, washing cars in driveways, etc.

The second stage usually involves “banning” non-essential water use and curbing other uses (i.e. commercial, industrial).

The third and/or severe stage may involve closing certain businesses.

Here, they would close first a professional carwash before a fast food drive through.

The reason being - people need food to survive, not carwash.

If conditions were bad enough, the authority might even close fast food because people can eat at home or work.

So, what would provide more benefit - reclaim system or water meter?

 

[Earl Weiss]

I thought that if I went in and offered to install a sewer meter at my own expense, how could they say no?

Sorry for the rude awakening. The politicians and Bureaucrats are liars. That is how they can say no. They may be perpetrating a fraud on the public by calling it a sewer charge.

Having you isntall a meter would catch them in a lie. Asking to install one tells them you know they are lying. Your situation is not unique. Many municipalities have passed so called "Sewer Charges" which have nothing to do with how much you use the sewer. They are simply addittional water charges tied solely to water usage. There are no provisions for landscaping, evaporation, etc.
Since it's purley a revenue issue and not a usage issue, (unless the ordinance stipulates otherwise) you may as well spit in the wind as ask for a meter.