Weep Issue

[slash007]

A couple of nights ago I noticed that the guns were weeping in all five of my bays. I went in to check it out and everything seemed fine inside, (weep mizer was working, solenoid had power) so I figured that it had to be an issue with my solenoid. My foam brush and tri-foam were not weeping and are powered together with the guns, so it was not a power issue. The solenoid is less than one year old as I just replaced it last year while I was chasing a different water issue, so even though signs pointed to the solenoid, I was skeptical. I tried powering it off than back on, tried changing the coil and finally changed the diaphragm. Finally after changing the diaphragm it stopped running, though I still wasn't convinced because the one I took out looked fine. Also after each thing I tried I would check and the water was still running, and even after I changed the diaphragm it was still running but stopped after a few minutes, so I'm not sure if that was what did it as I never waited long enough after power cycling it and changing the coil to see if either of those options worked. Anyhow, this morning all bays were weeping again. Is there something that I could be missing? I am thinking about ordering a whole new solenoid and swapping it out, but I just don't see what the problem is with this one? I hate to just switch things out and like to know what the problem was to start with. Thanks.

 

[cantbreak80]

Check for dirt/salt/debris in the valve’s cap…above the diaphragm. When the coil is energized, the solenoid plunger is pulled down until it closes the pilot port. Water then passes through the small diaphragm bleed hole until pressure above the diaphragm is equal to the inlet water pressure.

 

[2Biz]

Something else you can do: When re-plumbing my weep system, I installed a ball valve to shut off water to the solenoid. I also put a switch (Standard Light Switch) in-line to the solenoid. I switch power off in the summer so the solenoid is not energized while the weepmizer stays powered. I see no reason to have the weep system activated in the summer. If you had the shut off valve, you wouldn't be having this problem and you could be laying on a beach somewhere! The scenery would be much better and you wouldn't have to fix this right now!

 

[slash007]

I actually have small ball valves on each pump that shut off the weep to the guns, so I did that this morning so that it wouldn't be running until I figure it out. I look at it the other way, would much rather have it fixed now while the weather is nice than have to deal with it in the winter when it's miserable It's on a Jim Coleman Super Saver bench so I can turn off the solenoid without affecting the weep mizer, but since it's a NO solenoid, power is what keeps it off. I guess next summer I will probably disconnect the power to the solenoid and turn the shut-off off, but for now I would rather figure it out while I'm not in a big rush. Here is a picture of my setup:
View attachment 483 View attachment 484 The solenoid closest to the pressure gauge is for the guns, right next to it is for the foam brush/tri-foam, then the next five are for the pumps. Then the regulator. I actually had another question that I've been wanting to ask about the regulator. In the winter I wanted to increase the amount of water weeping, so I turned the regulator up a little bit. If you notice in the picture, it was set at 30 psi and the range is 10-35. When active it drops to around 22 I think. I turned it up to 35 psi and when active around 27. After the cold was over I turned it back down, but now it just hangs around 55-60. When active it drops back down to around 22 like it used to. Is that something that I have to worry about?

 

[MEP001]

It's usual for a little pressure to leak by the regulator when it's not flowing. The important thing is that it regulates the pressure where you need it when something is running.

Look at the seat inside the solenoid. If it's brass, it could be eroded.

 

[slash007]

Seat is fine, inside of the solenoid looks brand new. It has only been installed for less than a year, so the whole body inside and out is in great shape.

 

[Stuart]

I was not able to get picture to load however, if the coils are the same on all of your weep valves, switch the coils and see if problem moves. You might disconnect the discharge side of the valve, you will verify the weep is coming through the valve or if there is some sort of back flow from somewhere. This will also save you from running in and out to see if the weep is running in the bay. Hope this helps.

 

[cwguy.com]

What it the stock weep system for a coleman unit? Is it a weep mizer? Or something else? Did you check the temperature to see if that was correct? Also the cut on and off temperature?

I believe what 2biz was saying about a ball valve by your solenoid.... was it could save you money? Plus you can still tell if something fails (especially how 2biz has his wired... my cleanup guy might even be able to notice the light? )?

EDIT: I see it's a weep mizer now!

 

[2Biz]

Its also nice to be able to flip the switch off to check the weep in all bays. I know you can do the same thing with the weep mizer, but the switch is so much easier.

I can't imagine that poor little solenoid having to hold seat pressure for 365 days a year. No wonder it had a short life....

I'm with Stuart as well, try taking off the discharge hose from the solenoid. Then you'll know for sure if its leaking by.

 

[slash007]

I will check the discharge hose the next time I am there. Though now that I think about it, I turned off the ball valves on each pump and those just connect to the poly tube that runs from the solenoid, so water has to be passing through as the weeping stopped when the ball valves were turned off. If it was a different source, the water would continue to run in the bays, correct?

 

[MEP001]

I originally assumed that since you said the weep was running in all five bays that you were sure it was definitely a problem with the weep solenoid. A bad weep check valve on any pump will cause the others to weep when that bay is running. Closing the individual ball valves will make it stop, but closing the supply to the solenoid won't.

 

[slash007]

I originally assumed that since you said the weep was running in all five bays that you were sure it was definitely a problem with the weep solenoid. A bad weep check valve on any pump will cause the others to weep when that bay is running. Closing the individual ball valves will make it stop, but closing the supply to the solenoid won't.

Your right as I have had water running in all bays when a bay with a bad check valve is running. In this case though they all weep even when no pumps are being used.

 

[slamdvw]

Could they be siphoning?

At the wash I work at, a couple of the bays siphon water from the tank that sits directly above the pumps. This water is heated, so it's easy to tell which ones do it. ( The pumps are warm. )

Our system is total gravity feed, except the weep system, which has a ball valve.

 

[slash007]

Could they be siphoning?

At the wash I work at, a couple of the bays siphon water from the tank that sits directly above the pumps. This water is heated, so it's easy to tell which ones do it. ( The pumps are warm. )

Our system is total gravity feed, except the weep system, which has a ball valve.

I already had a siphoning problem that I took care of by installing check valves in the attic. Then when it siphoned the water flow was not much at all. Not it is a complete weep at full weep pressure. I have them shut off for now, figured I would troubleshoot some more on a rainy day since I have to shut off all the bays to work on it. Another reason to plumb in a shut off just for the weep solenoid.

 

[Stuart]

I got the picture to load- it looks like on the manifold, you have a solenoid valve to each bay. Just a thought- put a 1/2 " valve before the pressure regulator and replace the existing valves with flow controllers or needle valves. (except if each valve is controlled individually by a separate bay controller when the LP function is turned on.)

Again I think if you remove the discharge hoses, turn on the valves at the pump you will be able to troubleshoot quicker and easier. FWIW, I did not use any pressure reducer on my weep systems at 6 carwash locations I took care of, I wanted to have good pressure and volume- freezing a location happens quick and thawing a wash in the middle of winter is no fun either. Hope this helps.