weep questions, when to shut down, etc.

[area123]

Newbie here.. This wash is a very low budget wash so looking for ways ideas to lower expenses.

The current owner manually controls the weep, he just turns it on with a valve when he thinks it needs it. He's not had any problems yet he says. But I imagine he wastes a lot of water since he has to remember to go adjust/turn it off, etc. He has a weep controller but stopped using it since he lives next door he says, and it needed a part so he just started doing manually.

We've been wondering if it is more economical to just clear the hoses and turn off the weep when it will be too cold for several days in a row to use the wash, and maybe save some hot water. I've noticed most washes around here just rope off all of their bays when it's below freezing anyway so nobody is going to use them. Are they clearing their lines and turning off the weep flow?

It does get pretty cold here, maybe around 20-25F lows in December-February, but most days it will get above freezing and people will use the wash. But in January and February there can be weeks where it will stay below freezing for 5 days in a row or more.

 

[BBE]

You shouldn't be needing to weep hot water, especially if you are only dealing with just below freezing temps. Most just weep standard hard water straight from the city. For a little over 300 bucks you can get a weepmizer which would take care of the problem for you.

https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-8-dx1000-weep-mizer.aspx

 

[area123]

So I need to ask him why he's been using hot water I guess.

He's got a raco freeze protection unit which is probably 10 years old. It has a hot and cold weep system on it. It says hot weep below 20f I think. But he turned that off and does manually now. It probably needed a part or wasn't working right.

So nobody just clears the hoses and shuts down completely when it's going to be out of use for a week or so?

 

[cantbreak80]

Most operators/manufacturers converted to Dixmor’s DX1000 Weepmiser… http://www.dixmor.com/products/dx1000.htm
controller starting about 25 years ago. Designed and tested in the Denver, CO market, it’s universally used and probably the industry standard.

Prior to the WM, most facilities were equipped with a simple line voltage thermostat and a normally open solenoid. When the temperature dropped below say, 34°, the solenoid would open and water would flow…until the temperature rose above the thermostat’s set point.

Operators constantly fussed about “customers” using the free water for all manner of purposes…even to the point of washing their entire vehicle. The WM was initially marketed as a way to end the free weep water washers. Eventually, it became obvious that it dramatically reduced water consumption, especially during the “shoulder season”…where temps get cold, but not for days on end.

Basically, the WM cycles the weep system on and off based upon the ambient temperature. The colder the temperature, the longer the weep system runs. So, AT 34°, the weep solenoid opens for 6 seconds every minute. As the temperature drops, the on time is increased. BY 25°, the solenoid is open for 30 seconds every minute. When the temperature continues to drop, TO 15°, the solenoid is open for 54 seconds per minute. Below 15°, the solenoid remains open.

The device features a 2nd output that can turn things on or off based upon a 2nd set point. For example, I use it to trigger my foam brush and foam gun anti-freeze control system. Others use it to energize coin box or trough heaters. Some even use it as an ambient air temperature controller to turn off their floor heat system.

It’s a very cost effective and easy to install device that works for saving water and reducing free water users.

Maybe the purpose of hot water weep is to protect an unheated plumbing trough? And, yes...there are times when evacuating all the bay plumbing and closing down is appropriate. Especially when the forecast is for below zero temps for an extended time. I'm sure 2Biz will post a photo of his "almost automatic purging system"...it's pretty slick!

 

[2Biz]

Here’s a few pictures of my new weep design. As CB80 points out, it’s more of a Semi Automated design that allows for air purge and Washer Fluid injection via ball valves on the air supply manifold and Washer fluid pump (Flojet)…
Just last week, I saved more in weep water than the system cost. I had 3 of my 4 bays shut down completely and the 4th bay shut down for 2-3 days. It was so cold we wasn’t going to wash many or any cars, so there was no reason to keep all the bays open. Having the new system definitely gives me options I didn’t have before. The design is relatively simple and easy to put together. Air and Washer Fluid comes in from the bottom.

 

[rph9168]

I have known Morrie of Dixmor for a long time. A great piece of equipment. I once asked him how he came up with the name of his company. His wife's name is Dixie so he said he just used the first three letters of their names.. He said he thought Dixmor was a better choice than Mordix. I would have to agree especially knowing the characters in our industry.

 

[2Biz]

And all along I thought DIXMORE was a little humorous. Now we know the rest of the story!

 

[area123]

Great, thanks for all the info!

His plumbing trough doesn't appear to be heated. it is insulated I think though, haven't got to get all the details yet. but if its cold enough to freeze up weep water on the way out to the guns, we would just purge and shut down. I think that is what we were thinking anyway, blow air through it. Washer fluid is a great idea as well, hadn't thought of that.

 

[2Biz]

Typically, everybody with this type setup, blows the water out first, then fills all lines with WF, then blows out with air again. You can also catch the WF to reuse....I just dump it back in my 15 gallon drum for the LP blowdown/WF injection/blowdown system. That way you waste very little WF...

 

[Robert2181]

You have not mentioned if you have floor heat. You can tap into your floor heat loop and heat your trough. Or you can vent the heat from your equipment room up into your trough. Both of those options have been going on for more than 50 years. Especially with only 10 to 15 below the freeze point.

I too have know Morris and his wife for a long time.

There are many options.

 

[Earl Weiss]

1. If you are closed, people get used to you being closed.
2. I was very surprised how many people wash in the 20's and teens and even colder.
3. Low budget may be tripping over dollars to pick up nickels.
4. As noted you can use a closed loop system to heat the trough. Operational costs are nominal. You can also use heat tape as others have noted.
5. There is a physical and mental cost to doing things manualy. Get or use an automated system like Weepmizer.
6. Use an anti freeze foam brush soap. (I was in the business 2 years before I learned about this. I do manualy switch that over.

 

[area123]

I don't have floor heat. It's just too expensive to run. Most people here are very used to the washes shutting down. None are open if it's below freezing. Most washes around here are .75 to start and most people spend about $3 max per wash. Im guessing most don't have floor heat. None have bay doors except a few automatics.

There are loops for floor heat and maybe we will try it next year and see if it's worth to keep open below freezing. But it's so cold now that nobody will even get out. I think it didn't get over 25 today, although that's not common.

I do plan to heat the trough and install a weep miser though. There are nights around this time of year it gets about 25 and then warms uk to 40 the next morning. That will be common for a few weeks.

 

[Washmee]

We just set a new record here in NE Ohio for the coldest February since they started keeping records about 150 years ago, 14.2 * average temperature . I managed to wash cars for 26 days with only 2 days closed due extreme wind chills. When the temp hit 25* last week everybody thought we were having a heatwave.

 

[area123]

Well that's great. But around here you wash your car at 30 degrees and the doors will freeze shut. If you can find one that hasn't shut down yet at that temp. They don't heat the floors or the rinse water. I've not found one here yet that stays open. We might try it at some point but the cost to operate is high at that point and not worth the 5 cars that would use it that day. Small low income towns around here. You're obviously in a different market.

 

[2Biz]

You can heat your floors efficiently and cost effective, but you have to have the right equipment. I started a thread on the subject a few years ago. If you're interested, there is a lot of good information in the thread... Here is the link....I have no doors and we have die-hards that wash below zero. The floors stay ice free!

http://www.autocareforum.com/showth...-Water-Heater-For-Floor-Heat&highlight=demand

 

[rph9168]

Here in Atlanta we had one of the worst car wash weather months ever in February. Rained almost every day and when it did rain it snowed. Unfortunately December and January weren't much better. Hopefully we will have a better March but they have rain in the forecast for the next 5 days. Only good news is that we are way ahead on rainfall amounts so maybe we won't have drought conditions this summer.