Weepmiser vs. Polar Freeze Guard

[Reds]

I am located in a cold location in N.E. Pa. Temps below zero are not unusual and yes people are washing the salt off of their vehicles even when it's that cold. Currently I weep all the time below 36 degrees. I am debating installing a Polor Freeze Guard or Weepmiser. The weepmiser is cheaper, but cost is not the issue here. I like the concept of the Polar Freeze Guard (blows down lines, then blows down again with RV antifreeze) but the ongoing cost of RV anitfreeze is unknown. But my biggest concern with Freeze Guard is that it is supposed to tie into my high pressure line just above the bay boom. That means that if the power goes out I have water in my lines that would lay in an unheated (due to power outage) trough and freeze up. With the weep system, using NO solenoids, I have continuous weep even without power. I also heat my weep water with freestanding water heaters that have a standing pilot, so the weep heat is on with or without power. The cost of heating weep water is what has me considering Polar Freeze Guard. If there was a way to weep (cold water) when my power was off I would lean toward polar freeze guard. Or if I could blow down the entire line when power was off. Any thoughts or input would be appreciated.

 

[Indiana Wash]

I am located in a cold location in N.E. Pa. Temps below zero are not unusual and yes people are washing the salt off of their vehicles even when it's that cold. Currently I weep all the time below 36 degrees. I am debating installing a Polor Freeze Guard or Weepmiser. The weepmiser is cheaper, but cost is not the issue here. I like the concept of the Polar Freeze Guard (blows down lines, then blows down again with RV antifreeze) but the ongoing cost of RV anitfreeze is unknown. But my biggest concern with Freeze Guard is that it is supposed to tie into my high pressure line just above the bay boom. That means that if the power goes out I have water in my lines that would lay in an unheated (due to power outage) trough and freeze up. With the weep system, using NO solenoids, I have continuous weep even without power. I also heat my weep water with freestanding water heaters that have a standing pilot, so the weep heat is on with or without power. The cost of heating weep water is what has me considering Polar Freeze Guard. If there was a way to weep (cold water) when my power was off I would lean toward polar freeze guard. Or if I could blow down the entire line when power was off. Any thoughts or input would be appreciated.

Why are you weeping hot water??? Granted, I have a weepmiser, but I don't heat my weep water. Is heating your weep water even recommended?

Doesn't hot water actually freeze faster than cold in many circumstances? (Yes, it does, but probably not while running).

 

[Jeff_L]

I use a weepmizer which operates a NO solenoid on the cold water line. It took a couple of seasons for me to adjust the settings on the system along with the water pressures for each bay to make sure no freeze ups happen. Last season was the first of five I didn't have one frozen bay all winter long.

 

[Greg Pack]

I like my weepmizer but sewer is getting even more expensive here and it may be time for me take a harder look at a system designed to purge. In addition we don't have floor heat and my biggest ice build up in the bays is caused by the weep systems.

Seems to me you could have the best of both worlds. Why not install the polar freeze guard and just take your existing weep NO solenoid off a thermostat but leave in place. For that matter if the thermo has a cold enough temp you might could just turn all the way down. If the power goes out your NO thermostat will open and weep.

Also, why do they use RV antifreeze? Wouldn't antifreeze foam brush solution be cheaper?

 

[Waxman]

If it purges with air, why even use any anti freeze?

If you are concerned with power outages, buy a cheap generator that can run heat tapes on lines or your boiler for heat.

I can see using an air purge, but RV antifreeze seems very costly and unnecessary. Couldn't you just air-purge stronger and longer?

 

[Earl Weiss]

Doesn't hot water actually freeze faster than cold in many circumstances? (Yes, it does, but probably not while running).

Won $100.00 on this once. Someone should tell Mpemba from Tanzania who proved otherwise. (Do they have cold weather in Tanzania?)

Was 20 degrees outside. Filled 2 glasses with water from the tap. One Hot (Water heater set at 120 degrees not sure what the actual temp was) and one cold.

Cold froze first. Hot water lines may freeze before cold for 2 reasons. 1. The waterin them has cooled due to non use, and they get used less.


Under very specific circumstances not usualy found in nature Hot can "freeze" first

It is possible to consistently observe hot water freezing faster than cold water under certain conditions. All conditions except the initial temperature of water specimens must be the same and remain so during cooling, and the cold water must supercool to a temperature significantly lower than the temperature to which the hot water supercools. For hot water at an initial temperature of > ≈ 80?°C and cold water at < ≈ 20?°C, the cold water must supercool to a temperature of at least ≈ 5.5?°C, lower than the temperature to which hot water supercools. With these conditions satisfied, we observed initially hot water freezing before the initially cold water 28 times in 28 attempts. If the cold water does not supercool, it will freeze before the hot water because it always cools to 0?°C first regardless of the initial temperatures.
. © 2011 American Association of Physics Teachers

 

[Earl Weiss]

I also heat my weep water with freestanding water heaters that have a standing pilot, so the weep heat is on with or without power. The cost of heating weep water is what has me considering Polar Freeze Guard. .

I have a cold water line "T'd" into the hot water weep line so I can adjust the temp as desired. (below 20 degrees all hot)

 

[Bubbles Galore]

I am going to purchase a polar freeze guard system and had the same concern. What I've decided to do is keep my weep solenoid hooked up that keeps it closed (powered) as long as there is electricity...if power is lost, it will automatically open full bore and freezing lines in an unheated trough won't be an issue. See any reason this won't work?

 

[2Biz]

Weep Mizer's website says that a 6 bay SS can weep up to 20,000 gallons in just 7 days if running continious! It wouldn't take long at all to pay for either system based on this.

Any body test a Weep Mizer by itself to see how cold it can get before freezing your lines? I tested mine down to 20° with no additional heat in the trough last winter. I didn't have the balls to push it past that!

 

[Tpoppa]

A few thoughts:

I weep cold water and haven't had any lines freeze in a couple years.

I wouldn't be comfortable purging with just air. It would just take a few drops to gather in the tip to freeze.

If I were to purge, I would lean toward a feed from my LP system with winter foam brush chemicals. It's (relatively) cheap, already in my eqiupment room, and I trust it.

 

[bigleo48]

If it purges with air, why even use any anti freeze?

If you are concerned with power outages, buy a cheap generator that can run heat tapes on lines or your boiler for heat.

I can see using an air purge, but RV antifreeze seems very costly and unnecessary. Couldn't you just air-purge stronger and longer?

The anti-freeze mist will keep the lines from freezing in spots where water could pool. Also, if you just use air, the brush head bristles will freeze hard and so it would be unusable.

 

[Reds]

When trying to lower the cost of heating I tried weeping cold water and froze up. It was bitter out for sure. As soon as I thawed everything out I turned on the hot water and did not freeze up again. But I did not track temps from cold water weep to hot water weep. My site is particularly cold. We get a constant north wind that blows right thru the bays in the winter and at times it will almost blow you off your feet. I have to stand upwind of my wand to wash the bays down. For whatever reason we are also colder than a lot of areas near me. I have seen a period of time a couple years ago when we did not go above 0 for 10 days in a row. Bitter cold with wind. That's why I weep warm water. I also have had issues with the weep water freezing in the holster and then building up until it plugged the drain, then froze the tip of the wand, and of course then the whole line froze up. Last winter I covered the holsters with foam pipe insulation to try to ease that problem.

 

[car washing systems inc]

You can keep your weep hooked up with the polar freeze unit you just have to be sure it does not leak at all, i think i would put a N.O sol on each bay, thats what i plan on doing

 

[Reds]

You can keep your weep hooked up with the polar freeze unit you just have to be sure it does not leak at all, i think i would put a N.O sol on each bay, thats what i plan on doing

I want to make sure that I understand you correctly -- put a NO solenoid that is not hooked up to a Tsat in the weep line. Then when the power is on it would hold the solenoid closed, and the solenoid would open and weep only when the power was out. If I understand you correctly that would be a good backup for a power outage.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

That's what I plan on doing with my system.

 

[MEP001]

With a system that purges the line with antifreeze, I see no need to have a water weep system as a backup.

 

[I.B. Washincars]

With a system that purges the line with antifreeze, I see no need to have a water weep system as a backup.

I don't see a huge need, but if the power goes out while they are in use the lines won't be filled with AF.

 

[car washing systems inc]

With a system that purges the line with antifreeze, I see no need to have a water weep system as a backup.

If you lose power when someone is in the bay you are frozen.

 

[car washing systems inc]

I want to make sure that I understand you correctly -- put a NO solenoid that is not hooked up to a Tsat in the weep line. Then when the power is on it would hold the solenoid closed, and the solenoid would open and weep only when the power was out. If I understand you correctly that would be a good backup for a power outage.

I would put theN.O sol on each pump station with a check valve . You cant plan for everything, like if a low pressure function is leaking or spot free is feeding back, you need to keep up on things but it does save you $$

 

[Bubbles Galore]

With a system that purges the line with antifreeze, I see no need to have a water weep system as a backup.

If the power goes out, I lose my heat tape in my trough, that's why I will have the solenoid plumbed in to kick on when there is a loss of power.