Which Vac timer to use for old Doyle unit?

[scout]

We have 25 year old Doyle dual motor unit- The original Gin San unit is not carried by Kleen rite so we got fits all timer--
Only 3 contacts plus dip switch contacts--problem is vac comes on and stays on with new timer. wiring checks out-put in 2 new unit with same results.
Any idea,s?

 

[2Biz]

I have the same Doyle vacs and upgraded the Gin San timers with Paraplates. Although, while I was at it, (Per Randy's suggestion) I added a 24v transformer and mercury relay to handle the motor load for each vac. Haven't had one issue with any of my vacs with this set up.

https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-21676-us-paraplate-bayvacuum-timer-24-or-110-volt.aspx

 

[Doyle Vacuum]

I'm guessing you probably had an old GS-101 Timer (no longer made). I don't know what a "fits all timer" is - do you have a make and model of the timer you bought? If you can provide this information, I might be able to assist you with the wiring.

2Biz is right, regardless of the timer you use, the safest thing to do is to isolate the motors through a relay (or contactor) so that the timer does not have to carry the full amperage of the vacuum motors - the timer output only activates the coil on the relay (or contactor). Also, I would suggest that you put an in-line fuse on both motors. This way, when a motor fails, you will keep your timer protected from any resulting spike in amperage that could destroy the timer.

 

[scout]

The unit is-----Kleen-Rite 120V VAC Timer Dip Switch Type Model
Part #: TIKR540

We have installed inline fuses in all vacs---

 

[MEP001]

Do the motors run as soon as you turn on the breaker?

 

[scout]

Do the motors run as soon as you turn on the breaker?

yes--every time---

 

[MEP001]

You probably have it wired wrong. 1 is your line in hot (black wire), 2 is your switched load to motors, 3 is line in common (white wire). Either that or something has damaged them - did you set the timer switches before you powered them on the first time, or were they all off, you turned the breaker on, then set the switches?

 

[MEP001]

I added a 24v transformer and mercury relay to handle the motor load for each vac.

I've been doing the same thing, rather than spend $100 on a timer twice a year I've been using a bunch of old Dixmor timers and adding the relay. At some point I mean to replace the coin door and actually use the Dixmor display too.

 

[mjwalsh]

We have 25 year old Doyle dual motor unit- The original Gin San unit is not carried by Kleen rite so we got fits all timer--
Only 3 contacts plus dip switch contacts--problem is vac comes on and stays on with new timer. wiring checks out-put in 2 new unit with same results.
Any idea,s?

Scout,

We have 1987 Doyle vacs & since the Dixmor's are so reliable (Led5s we bought from Ebay) we finally went with the 24VAC transformer & mercury relay approach. Doing that we found that while we originally wanted to put the display like Mep said on the faceplate ... it seemed to be too crowded so we put it lower protecting the Dixmor Window further with Lexan.

If you are interested in seeing the end result of the Dixmor Timer put with display put lower ... go to ... fast-forward 30 minutes & 9 seconds (quickly done to save time) within the following YouTube Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enaZn_YUYys

The customers tend to be at a lower height while vacuuming so we have found that the lower placement of the display is just as good in our opinion.

mike walsh www.kingkoin.com

 

[scout]

we set switches 1st then powered up --also turned all off including coin side---still no change---

 

[2Biz]

I should add....If you use the Paraplate (24v-120v) timer, you can eliminate the 24v transformer and use a Mercury relay with a 120v coil. The paraplate is auto sensing and will switch between 24v and 120v, whichever is supplied to the timer.

Mike, Nice placement of the LED timer! I was running into the same problem. The LED won't fit above in the faceplate. I'm storing that one away for when I don't have anything else to do!

 

[Earl Weiss]

Not familiar with this unit. Does the coin switch itself have 2 or 3 terminals. If it has 3 I can't help but wonder if you are using an incorrect one.

 

[Doyle Vacuum]

Just to confirm your wiring using that timer. Terminal 1 should be connected to 120V Hot incoming... Terminal 2 should be connected to 120V Hot output to your motors... Terminal 3 should be connected to 120V Common both incoming and outgoing... Teminals 4 and 5 are for your coin switch.

 

[scout]

Fixed electrical problem on doyle vac

We found extra hot wire from when my guy put new motor in pinched between motor and base mount. I think two problems existed-1st timer bad -would not cut power. New timer was not wired in correct and put power to load instead of line and vacs powered up from hot ground thru motor- to common-by passing new timer?
My head hurts--

 

[mjwalsh]

Scout, 2Biz & others,

Glad to see you solved the problem with the wiring after your further examination! Those older vacuums' shells use a heavier gauge stainless steel .... so in some ways they are more valuable than getting brand new vacuums. We used to use both the timers (even with 120VAC mercury relays) you described & we always had a greater failure rate than with the Dixmor that we finally went to a few years ago.

Based on our long term experience, the return on investment (ROI) of the 2 motor Doyle Vacs is very high. Therefore, the minor extra expense of going to 24VAC with Dixmor Timer with display showing, mercury relay, & IDX MA800 acceptor has proved to be well worth it for us. Since our customers are gradually getting more & more dollar coins from our 2 Standard Changemakers ... they appreciate not having the nuisance of having to insert multiple times that they would need to do with the Doyle's original mechanical quarters only acceptor. The 24VAC coil mercury relay allows us to get away from potential sticking contacts which could also make it so the vac motors do not shut off.

mike walsh www.kingkoin.com

 

[soonermajic]

Dang good advice in this old thread...