white spots

[Jimmy Buffett]

I have a customer with a dark blue Taurus. She has white spots on the front of her car that look like they were sprayed on (like my bug spray). We added the bug spray a few months ago and have probably washed 2500-3000 using it since then.
I can't figure out how we could have caused these spots but it sure looks like we did. The only thing that I can think of is if the solenoid valve stuck open and it sprayed her car as she was leaving, then baked in the sun for a LONG time. My chemical rep came over and we cleaned and buffed the spots. It looked like we had them and then we had a very light shower and they all came back. I had it buffed again but you could still faintly see the spots. If It ever rains again I think they will be back.
I don't know if we caused this or not but that really doesn't matter. This lady (who has been very nice about it, she just wants the spots gone) thinks we caused it and I think we may have too. I'm going to fix it for her. Does anybody have any suggestions as to how to get them short of painting the car? We used a very strong, high ph liquid first and then buffed with 3 different buffers and the spots came back worse that ever. I've had chemical reps and detailers look at it and work on it and so far no good. Anybody have any ideas?
Thanks

 

[soapy]

Could they be hard water spots? I would try some vinegar first to disolve the calcium. If that does not work dilute some alumabrite acid with 4 parts of water and see if you can remove the spots.

 

[rph9168]

There is a limit to how much buffing you can do without cutting through the clear coat. Based on what you have said, after having a detail shop work on it the problem is beyond applying more chemical. I hate to say it but I think you are going to have to consider a paint job. Since it is only on the front, a decent body shop should be able to blend it and not have to do much more than the affected area.

That being said, I am not sure you caused the damage you described. If you have washed that many cars without incident I find it hard to believe your wash caused this. There are many things found on roads or that come off other vehicles that could cause similar damage.

 

[Jimmy Buffett]

I emailed her and got an "out of office" reply so she must be on vacation this week. I will try the vinegar when she gets back.
I agree that it's likely that we didn't cause the problem and if I thought she was trying to scam me I would tell her to take a hike. She FIRMLY believes that it was caused here and I accept that it could have been. She and her husband are very visible in the community. My car wash experience tells me that it's probably not my fault but my business experience tells me that perception is reality. I think it would cost me more to not paint it than to paint it. I sure hope that I don't have to though.

 

[washnvac]

I can offer this for you to check out. I get my '03 black Yukon detailed about every 6 months. Just before I took it last time, I noticed these white spots on the hood. They looked similar to hard water spots. This vehicle goes through one of my ibas probably 4 times per week on average. So I immediately think I have a problem somewhere. But after checking all four locations water hardness and tds on the spot-free; I find no issues. And these spots are only on the hood.

I take it to my detailer friend, and he asks had I been to a parking garage recently. And as a matter of fact, I had 2 weeks earlier. He asked did you notice any water dripping from the concrete. And as a matter of fact I did, because it was raining that day. He believes there is some sort of acidic mixture coming off the concrete that eats through the clear coat, and leaves these spots. And it makes sense to me, because it was only dripping on the hood; and I found no other issues that could have caused it.

Like you, the fresh wax makes them almost disappear, until it is washed 2 or three times or rains. I would have never given that a thought had he not brought it up---it was just unexplainable. He had run into it 2 other times. One he was able to get off because the guy noticed it right away after leaving the parking garage. The other was like mine, and a few weeks had passed. I just plan to live with them for now. It is food for thought; maybe you want to ask the lady.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I take it to my detailer friend, and he asks had I been to a parking garage recently. And as a matter of fact, I had 2 weeks earlier. He asked did you notice any water dripping from the concrete. And as a matter of fact I did, because it was raining that day. He believes there is some sort of acidic mixture coming off the concrete that eats through the clear coat, and leaves these spots. And it makes sense to me, because it was only dripping on the hood; and I found no other issues that could have caused it.

.

This can also happen from water driping off a bridge. Years back we saw this more often and there was a product that got rid of it but now I am not sure what it was.

Try the vinegar.

 

[Red Baron]

I'm pretty sure Obama and ACORN have something to do with the white spots. I notice not one person here has complained about black spots -- you think that's just a coincidence? Think again.

Ok, maybe that's not it. I subscribe to the theory that it may have nothing to do with your car wash. Is there a pattern to the spots that suggest direction of travel? There should be if it came from a car wash...assuming your bug blast nozzles are like mine, in front of the car facing rearward.

 

[Waxman]

I agree that it is likely the water drips from a parking structure or some type cement dust/water spot combo.

I worked on a car like this. The customer was on vacation and their car (gorgeous Infiniti) was parked in a parking structure (concrete). Drips from above hit the car in the same spot all week. They had me try and I failed to fix it (buffing, acid, vinegar etc.)

They had to send it to the body shop.

If your car wash did it, it would show up on multiple cars, not just one, if it were a chemical glitch, right?

Ask them about the parking garage idea or construction fallout exposure etc.

Tell them you aren't trying to pass the buck, just figure out the true source of the problem. If it wasn't your fault, why should you paint it? The liability may rest with another party.

 

[Jimmy Buffett]

I'll ask her when she gets back. There are no parking structures in this town tough. She washed it at 9 on a Sunday morning, went to Walmart then home. She noticed it the next morning when she went to go to work. She actually ran it through the wash a couple of times to try to get it off herself but it keeps coming back.
The pattern looks like it was sprayed from the front, like my bug spray, but also like many other things.
I did have to replace that solenoid valve because it leaked. I don't know whether it would be possible for it to stick on and spray enough to get on the hood and windshield. I had to add a booster pump to get it to the windshield.
I agree that I PROBABLY didn't cause the spotting. I am going to fix it though. We have a spotless(pun intended) reputation and I intend to keep it that way.
Thanks

 

[Tom Thumb]

I don't know if your customer has a in-ground sprinker system using recycled water , but here in florida these can cause this problem and it is a pretty common problem.

 

[Red Baron]

Possibly she parked at Walmart by a landscaped area and the landscapeguy oversprayed it with something.

 

[Waxman]

Here's an idea;

Go to the junkyard and get a hood in decent shape.

Take some of the chemical you think did the damage and spray if on the junkyard hood. Then proceed as your wash would've done (you can replicate an IBA wash in the ss for example).

Post the results.

Go ahead and paint the car if you want, but I'd still want to know if my wash could create that problem, wouldn't you?

I mean, you also don't don't want others coming in for a repaint if word gets out you are repainting cars for free and the source of the problem (assuming it was not you) got several other cars spotted up, too.

 

[pitzerwm]

It could also be a deteration of the paint, I had a Eldo paint job that that started like that.

 

[jimbeaux]

How big are the spots, how many are there? Is there a pattern are or they ramdom?

 

[Jimmy Buffett]

The spots are in a pattern just like they were sprayed on with my bug spray and they are about half or a third the size of a dime. There were a lot of them. I still don't know how many, if any, came back.
Thanks

 

[robert roman]

You haven't said anything about the year of car or the general condition of the paint. This is important in identifying the cause of the problem.

For example, if a paint finish is not maintained, it tends to absorb and becomes more susceptable to flashing and stains over time.

As you have experienced, you can temporarily hide stain marks with wax. The buffer didn't work because the stain is deep. As with the wax, the stain mark always comes back.

If the clearcoat in the affected area is practically worn away. paint refinishing is often the best solution.

 

[Jimmy Buffett]

You haven't said anything about the year of car or the general condition of the paint. This is important in identifying the cause of the problem.

For example, if a paint finish is not maintained, it tends to absorb and becomes more susceptable to flashing and stains over time.

As you have experienced, you can temporarily hide stain marks with wax. The buffer didn't work because the stain is deep. As with the wax, the stain mark always comes back.

If the clearcoat in the affected area is practically worn away. paint refinishing is often the best solution.

It's an 07 Taurus with 15k miles on it and it looks like new.

 

[Jimmy Buffett]

Customer finally got back to me. She said that she thought 1 more buffing would take care of it. I made an appointment with the detail guy, took him some vinegar and told him to try it just for grins. I still have not seen the car but the detail guy said that the vinegar seemed to help quite a bit and he thinks he cleared up the problem. Thanks for your help!