Who is our PFAS testing expert here?

[Eric H]

I’ve received a letter from our health department that they are implementing mandatory wastewater testing at all of the carwashes in the city. Cost for us is $400.
Don’t know much about it except my chemical suppliers have told me that they do NOT use PFAS. Our measurable levels should be zero.
Here’s the part that gets me angry. I’m in Leominster, Ma. Nicknames the Plastic City! Once home of DuPont chemical just a mile up the road from our Carwash.
Anyway, anyone fighting this? It is a EPA mandate so I suspect we don’t have much choice. If you are already compliant, what are you paying for testing?

 

[Eric H]

Tap water study detects PFAS ‘forever chemicals’ across the US | U.S. Geological Survey

At least 45% of the nation’s tap water is estimated to have one or more types of the chemicals known as per- and polyfluorinated alkyl substances, or PFAS, according to a new study by the U.S. Geological Survey. There are more than 12,000 types of PFAS, not all of which can be detected with...

www.usgs.gov

 

[OurTown]

Oh boy. Is this $400 for just one site? Is it an independent lab and you can shop around or is the testing through the health department? What about leaked automotive fluids in our waste water? I bet those have PFAS in them but maybe they would be so diluted that they would pass. We do not have to test currently but I bet it's coming some day.

 

[Eric H]

The $400 is the lab the health dept contracted with to do the testing. We have to pay the bill.
The testing is “only” $379 but it’s an additional $21 to dispose of the sample.
The letter I received was dated Nov 4, I received it on the 8th and had a phone call on Nov 12 (the previous day was a Monday holiday) before noon. The guy in charge of taking the samples seemed fairly annoyed thatI won’t schedule a testing time with him because I want to educate myself on the subject. I asked him for more information and was told “Google it”. Head of the Health Department was more helpful but her position was “it’s a EPA mandate, you don’t have any choice”.
I suspect the incoming “fresh” water already has PFAS in it.

 

[OurTown]

Surely the municipal water supplier has to test also and that report should be available.

 

[Eric H]

Surely the municipal water supplier has to test also and that report should be available.

Going down town today to get a copy.
A close friend used to be the Health dept director but he passed away 2 years ago. He would have had all the answers for me. Really great at his job! The new director is still learning the job.

 

[Dan kamsickas]

The whole PFAS hysteria started about 10 miles from where I'm sitting typing this. I say hysteria because, yes, they are dangerous chemicals but the absolute freak out has lead to such overreach like you are dealing with. The EPA has empowered local authorities to lose all logic. You don't control your incoming water supply, you use chemicals from suppliers who certify no PFAS, but if they test your waste and find PFAS they're going to hammer you even though you have no control on what comes in with the vehicle and ends up in your pits. Good Luck.

 

[Guynextdoor]

I would be contacting city council and protesting this! This is a cost thats PURE BS to your business!!

 

[Axxlrod]

If PFAS are detected in your water, then they were already there in the water your municipality provided to you!

 

[Eric H]

If PFAS are detected in your water, then they were already there in the water your municipality provided to you!

That’s our position.
My distributor told me he has already spoken to owners all over MA that are having the same testing requirement. . It appears that this is a nationwide EPA requirement but it hasn’t been implemented in many areas YET.
We have a wash in the neighboring city and haven’t had any testing requests from that city yet.
I’m hoping that this is a foolish Biden-era EPA regulation that will go away soon. The New England Carwash Association (NECA) and the ICA don’t appear to have a position on this foolishness.
All of the locally owned carwashes have been in touch with each other. One guy is requesting a meeting with the Mayor for us.

 

[HeyVern]

Saw yesterday, Trump will appoint Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy to form a Government Efficiency committee to end a lot of this kind of regulation, I hope they actually follow through. I would definitely have my incoming water tested so I could prove the PFAS was already present.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Saw yesterday, Trump will appoint Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy to form a Government Efficiency committee to end a lot of this kind of regulation,

Whatever they do would likely only apply at the Federal level and would not apply to a state or local agency.

 

[OurTown]

Whatever they do would likely only apply at the Federal level and would not apply to a state or local agency.

I was under the impression that the local governments enforced the state EPA laws which enforced the federal EPA laws.

 

[Dan kamsickas]

Whatever they do would likely only apply at the Federal level and would not apply to a state or local agency.

It will definitely effect state and local as federal mandates and funding directly drive local policy. As someone who's been far to close to a lot of government projects I can assure you one of the more popular tactics used on local agencies is to suggest that funding for other projects gets threatened if there isn't compliance with certain Federal rules applied on other issues. i.e.: "I know you're not in favor of this policy Mr Mayor. That's okay. By the way, aren't you applying for a federal grant for your new downtown green space? Be a shame if you couldn't deliver that when the voters in your town overwhelmingly approved the master plan you proposed. I guess the no new taxes for it you promised may have to happen after all."

 

[Earl Weiss]

I was under the impression that the local governments enforced the state EPA laws which enforced the federal EPA laws.

OP says it was the local health dept. Reducing Fed regs won't necessarily affect their regs. Everyplace is different.

 

[Earl Weiss]

It will definitely effect state and local as federal mandates and funding directly drive local policy. As someone who's been far to close to a lot of government projects I can assure you one of the more popular tactics used on local agencies is to suggest that funding for other projects gets threatened

Yes, but even if lol regs / enforcement were tied to the hammer of Federal funding, I don't see local regs changing just because Fed regs get loosened. Possible - Yes. Likely - No.

 

[Eric H]

OP says it was the local health dept. Reducing Fed regs won't necessarily affect their regs. Everyplace is different.

This is the local health dept/water Dept enforcing new federal regulations. I do suspect the enforcement is somehow linked with the federal funding.
After doing some additional research it appears that this waste water testing will very likely be something EVERY Carwash will have to deal with. PFAS chemicals have been removed from carwash chemicals (as claimed by several distributors/manufacturers I’ve had direct and indirect contact with). There was a waste water study conducted that showed PFAS present in samples taken in close proximity to carwashes. That level was 100x higher than samples from further away from carwashes.
I’ve only skimmed this report titled:
“What could be contributing to PFAS contamination in commercial car wash wastewater (and nearby groundwater), and how can it be minimized?”

https://www.pprc.org/_files/ugd/c56719_d6a368d22cf04fd8a6b71409b47de128.pdf

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

Governnment puts flouride in the water supply.
Government says you cant drill a well, you can only buy your water from them.
Government EPA says compounds formed from the flouride in the water are bad bad bad.
Government says you have to pay to see if there are flouride compounds in the water.
Coming soon: government will make you pay to remove it because you are an evil capitalist.

No offense, but anybody who thinks government officials are "public servants" is a fool.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Governnment puts flouride in the water supply.

Government EPA says compounds formed from the flouride in the water are bad bad bad.
Government says you have to pay to see if there are flouride compounds in the water.
.

Fluoride vs. Fluorine - What's the Difference? | This vs. That

What's the difference between Fluoride and Fluorine? Fluoride and fluorine are both chemical compounds that contain the element fluorine. Fluorine is a highl...

thisvsthat.io

Aside from limits on concentration of Fluoride and RFK jr. I find nothing about compounds being formed (Unless you confuse Flourine with Flouride)
I would b interested in any link to a source (not RFK jr or general anti vax conspiracy related ) that supports the above statements.

Most local water treatment places that add flouride will tell you the concentration.

 

[Blanco]

Im going to just leave these here...