Windshield washer fluid or RV anti freeze?

[Dan-Ark]

My first winter in the water pumping/dispensing business (car wash). We have weathered a few overnight lows a little below 30 with no ill effects, weep is working and although my laser thermometer cant detect any heat on teh cable, the heat cables must be working as we didn't break any poly lines in the troughs.

I am 40 miles from my wash, and have to attend a funeral out of town this weekend so I am thinking I should dump my tanks and fill with either windshield fluid or maybe RV antifreeze to protect the chemical lines. Looks like we would close for a week. the lowest forcasted low is 18. but in 20s most of the week at night.

is there any major advantage disadvantage to either anti freeze? (I have winter mix foam brush chemical that I might as well switch to for that so I'm concerned with just the chemical lines that run to the bays).

Am I being too cautious? I will likely close for a week anyway as I wont be around to monitor ice on the ground if it should happen. I have a couple plumbing modifications I need to do with the wash closed as well. Weep is working, no floor heat. gas heat in equipment room so not too much to worry about there.

 

[Randy]

I hate the cold!! We use windshield washer fluid when we shut down the car washes. We blow the systems out with air and then pump in the windshield washer fluid. If you have winter mix foam brush soap you could just use that. If you use the winter foam brush soap use it straight out of the drum.

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

the heat cables must be working as we didn't break any poly lines in the troughs.

WW fluid is cheaper than antifreeze. A winter FB solution is more convenient because you probably already have it.

Me - I'd just blow out the low pressure lines with air and be done with it. Given that you have heat tape in your trough (did I read that correctly?) any residual liquid shouldnt freeze, but if it does there will not be enough liquid in the hoses to case damage/bursting which is what I'd be concerned about.
Yes WW fluid is cheap enough that if you want peace of mind, use that. Just make sure you get one with a temp rating low enough for your forecasted lows.

 

[2Biz]

My first winter in the water pumping/dispensing business (car wash). We have weathered a few overnight lows a little below 30 with no ill effects, weep is working and although my laser thermometer cant detect any heat on teh cable, the heat cables must be working as we didn't break any poly lines in the troughs.

I am 40 miles from my wash, and have to attend a funeral out of town this weekend so I am thinking I should dump my tanks and fill with either windshield fluid or maybe RV antifreeze to protect the chemical lines. Looks like we would close for a week. the lowest forcasted low is 18. but in 20s most of the week at night.

is there any major advantage disadvantage to either anti freeze? (I have winter mix foam brush chemical that I might as well switch to for that so I'm concerned with just the chemical lines that run to the bays).

Am I being too cautious? I will likely close for a week anyway as I wont be around to monitor ice on the ground if it should happen. I have a couple plumbing modifications I need to do with the wash closed as well. Weep is working, no floor heat. gas heat in equipment room so not too much to worry about there.

If you are going to close down, why run the weep? I pay about $20 a thousand for water and sewage, so below 15°, it racks up. When I close down a few bays, I blow out the HP lines and inject washer fluid till the lines are full, turn power off to the bays, then leave them till I open up. As for the LP lines, I have an automated system that blows them down and injects WF below 32°. Then when a bay is used, only the LP function that was used is winterized. In your case, if you close down, just energize the air solenoid for each bay and blow them out and leave them. Won't hurt a thing...

A few pictures that might spur some ideas and projects. As for not knowing if the heat cable is on, I have LED lights in the Er on the same circuit as the heat cable. They light up when energized plus I have 2 heat sensors attached to the cable that I can glance at from the Er to tell what temp they are. My trough stays at 110° below freezing. This picture was taken in the summer time. The other pics is my weep system I designed. Weep comes in from the top. Air and washer fluid come in from the bottom left. Washer fluid is connected to a Flojet. This setup makes it so much easier to close down the HP guns in the bays using the ball valves. I can close down the whole wash in a matter of minutes. Or can close down just a few bays if that's what I want. I do have floor heat, so I can have one or two bays open even below zero.

 

[dukeofsuds]

One solution for peace of mind about the heat tape. I use SmartThings sensors. I put a smart plug on the outlet that the heat tape plugs into. You'll notice that it cycles on and off even in freezing temperatures. Anyway, you can set up a notification when that outlet draws a higher than normal wattage. Alert can be sent to your phone. You'd need an outlet and SmartThings, about $100. But you'll find uses for sensors everywhere, I have a post on that. But I did put one in the attic in the trough where the hoses are inside, just to know what temperature is in there. (We have a box in the attic that is insulated, and also has heat tape). Once you buy the hub, the cost of sensors are around $20-30 each.

 

[cantbreak80]

See, 2Biz!!!!!

I told you we'd soon be saying, "Hey Seri, close bays 3 & 4 down until further notice."

 

[2Biz]

Yea, I remember you saying that! The only thing, I'd think she'd have a difficult time putting the cones up and covering the pitts!

I wonder if Seri cleans up bays?!?!?

 

[mjwalsh]

One solution for peace of mind about the heat tape. I use SmartThings sensors. I put a smart plug on the outlet that the heat tape plugs into. You'll notice that it cycles on and off even in freezing temperatures. Anyway, you can set up a notification when that outlet draws a higher than normal wattage. Alert can be sent to your phone. You'd need an outlet and SmartThings, about $100. But you'll find uses for sensors everywhere, I have a post on that. But I did put one in the attic in the trough where the hoses are inside, just to know what temperature is in there. (We have a box in the attic that is insulated, and also has heat tape). Once you buy the hub, the cost of sensors are around $20-30 each.

dukeofsudes,

Any words of advice on increasing the reliability of the connections since you seem to have had great success with SmartThings? Internet threads like the below? A similar attempt by me about 4 years ago with another remote internet solution has made me a bit on the cautious side.

https://community.smartthings.com/t/things-keep-disconnecting/128059

 

[dukeofsuds]

Firstly, I have a v3 hub, and never had a v2 hub. So I have no legacy scars. V2 and V3 aren't just software differences, they're significant. However, I **feel** from having read the SmartThings story (a Kickstarter startup later bought by Samsung) I think Samsung is putting their resources behind it very seriously.

I've had two issues with these sensors. One, of the 10 sensors, didn't work out of the box. Returned it.

Other than that, the only issue I've had with these so far is that they do lose connection when they start to go less than 32 degrees. I've mitigated this in two ways. Firstly, this was is mostly an issue with a Samsung Brand Smartthings MultiPurpose Sensor that was outside. Smartthings works with other brands, but haven't ventured far on Zigbee stuff except for use cases needing non Samsung -- i.e. one sensor that gets the coldest -- the one doing the outside temperature. I asked and looked around and found that Samsung sensors aren't really designed for outdoor use. So I switched out the Samsung for an Ecobee for that. The Ecobee thing uses noticeably different batteries among other things but is rock solid down to 10 degrees so far, and Thursday will be 0 or less, so we'll see. I'm in West Virginia, not North Dakota so I'm sure I get it a little better than you do.

Secondly, I only really need one sensor to do the outside temperature. Other sensors react based on the one giving the outdoor temperature (IF that ecobee is less than 32, and....). And most of my other sensor locations mean my system is in trouble if they go below 32 degrees (or more specifically, get closer to the outside temperature). So by application I don't put them there. If they get below 32 then something else should have kicked on (e.g. my weeping system, my winter wizard heat hoses, the trough my heat tape is in, etc.).

The sensor that gets used the most is the one that turns the lights on and off every night. Dusk/Sunrise. It has never missed. And if I thought it might, that one wouldn't get used. But it's a godsend to stop adjusting a stupid timer for the changes in sunrise/sunset.

So I've never experienced the issues listed in the 4 months or so I've been using them. In fact, I have never had a reliability problem. I use a ring system too, which uses that same technology but doesn't talk to the Smartthings hub (it only talks to Ring hubs). And I thought if I was ever going to have a problem, I would have when I added Ring shortly thereafter. That works flawless too.

The sensors haven't revolutionized my world, but they probably paid for themselves in terms of peace of mind and a few weird oddities. I have a garage door opener that seems to have a mind of it's own and opens (there's a short somewhere I swear). Anyway, I heat the auto bay. It's told me that the garage door was open when the temperature was less than 32 degrees in the bay. All of those together told me there was a problem. Went and shut the door and saved the universe from global warming all night.

Hope that helps.

 

[mjwalsh]

dukeofsudes,

Let see am I close to understanding this .... the Smartthings App from several phones ... if a compatible sensor was tripped ... the compatible phone with its Smartthings App could more than just receive a text or email ... it could even wake you up in the middle of the night if necessary?

Also the phone or computer app could turn on a compatible outlet even if an owner was 100 miles away as long as there was the ethernet or wifi connected to the Smartthings Hub?

It sounds almost too good to be true. Is there a some serious IP configuration? Could an owner gain something with a Static IP for the specific SmartthingsHub at the business? I have up to 5 Static IPs my Internet Provider allows me.

I see that a ADT Monitoring System is available for a monthly charge with a their own Smartthings Hub??? It seems like that is not really needed as long as someone was on call making sure his or her phone sound or vibrate is not off?

Your right about sometimes being colder here ... wind chills in the minus 55° range (formerly -90°) can be the norm here for several days ... as in most of this specific week as I type! I went for my daily senior citizen walk this noon & any compacted snow seemed like ... was changing to solid smooth ice in real time! Good thing ... attachments with spike like grips were on the bottom my shoes!

mike

 

[dukeofsuds]

Yes. Install Smartthings on a phone (Android/Apple). Install sensors using the app. And then program the app to send you notifications when sensors do things in combination. Think IF.... THEN statements.

For example, I know what temperature it is outside because I have a sensor. I also have a WinterWizard (which is a thingee that keeps the IBA warm. I have a temp sensor glued to the reservoir. Thus I have a rule:

IF the outside sensor is less than 32 degrees, and the reservoir temp is less than 75 degrees, send me an alert. That tells me that something happened to the Winter Wizard which is normally between 80 and 130 degrees and is supposed to turn on when cold. That sensor to do that was $20 beyond the hub and the sensor outside, so it wasn't a major investment for the peace of mind on a tradeoff.

I have an outlet that says OPEN (after all open 24/7). I have it on a SMARTTHINGS outlet. I can turn it off remotely. I also can do this for the lights, but I have a rule for that. The rule says "if it's 30 minutes before sunset turn on. If it's dusk, turn off>"

Some sensors notify me of problems, other sensors do things. A lot of the limitation will be the equipment we're talking about. The only thing you can interface with on your car wash equipment is probably the power. And the other obvious limitation is power. If your power to the entire site goes out, you don't have internet, and it can't send you a notification. The sensors are battery, but the unit needs Internet.

No IP configuration. I'm not a techie, I'm a user trying to simplify my life. It does need wifi or ethernet internet at the car wash, but it just communicates with the app, no port forwarding, etc. I feel it's secure. I have a guy who manages things, and I share the app with him by giving him an invite to see my sensors. So it can be set up for multiple users.

I saw the ADT sensors, but didn't hear good things about ADT sensors and Smartthings. Part of it is the economics and part of it is technical. First you need to replace your Smartthings hub with ADT's hub, which may have some issues as it's based on v2. Then problems with the the cost of the alarm and the fact that existing ADT sensors need to be replaced with new sensors. Also, because people expect to use ADT to monitor even non ADT sensors (Smartthings sensors can't be professionally monitored by ADT). Anyway, that was too complicated for me. I'm like an old fax machine user. Everything separate is good. Video cameras, security systems, and sensors are 3 things that I don't like crossing over. I am not one of those 3 in 1 printer users lol!

But if you want an alarm to research, I use Ring. The alarm itself was $200 for about 5 sensors -- which I only needed 2 on the control room and a motion sensor. And then the best part is that monitoring is only $100 a year. No contracts. I used it on the house for about 6 months before getting one for the car wash. The alarm works like any other, but the monitoring cost is a steal. It has cellular backup and a bunch of other things just like your ADT system probably does.

Stay warm, my friend. I can't fathom -55. I lived in Austin TX, where the problem was heat not cold! I'm barely surviving 0!

 

[mjwalsh]

dukeofsudes,

Thanks for the details ... this could be a candidate for its own thread but on the other hand we are just including that there are other sensors also besides the relevant to this thread's freezing-temperature consideration.

I am starting to think that the Smartthings would be a good fit for 3 or 4 of us who have current enough Samsung Galaxy Note or Iphones.

It is still not clear to me if the SMS or whatever notifications could be set to make a loud enough sound &/or possibly a repetitive enough sound so if one of the sensors triggered ... so we would clearly hear it even if we are sound asleep at our remote location. I am assuming that the Smartthings App is powerful enough to set the time when the chosen ... especially when loud notifications are required???

It sounds like you can glance at the phone app screen & see the state of all ten of your Smartthings Sensors? That seems that could be really be helpful if you can do that ... especially if it is with just a glance.

We would prefer to do our own monitoring so ADT & Ring seem not be the best fit for us. If the compatible Smartthings Sensor remotely gets our attention then a multiple camera viewing app or remote desktop .... could be then switched on the phone to do a remote visual check of the separately operating camera app areas. Makes sense to me as long as we don't sleep through a somewhat too quiet notification.

mike

 

[dukeofsuds]

Last couple pieces of clarity to close out.

1. Notifications are just like notifications with any other smart phone app. The adjustability and obnoxiousness of notifications are a function of whatever control you have in your iphone or Android phone settings as the operating system controls that. They do not come via SMS messages.

2. Yes, you can go in the app, and see a "dashboard' of all your sensors and their current reading at any time. If they are sensors you can control (e.g. a lightswitch or a door lock), you can also flip on or off in the app directly on the dashboard.

3. Ring doesn't have to be monitored. It's a separate purchase. If you don't do monitoring, you get alerts in the Ring app on the smartphone (and depending on phone features you can adjust the obnoxiousness of it however you want). If you want monitoring, it's $100.

Erik
Duke of Suds

Hope that helps.

 

[wash4me]

ezesys.com is what i use. It does all that and a lot more. Search eze in old threads to see the info.

 

[slash007]

I have smart things sensors that monitor my two exit doors and they saved me tonight. Both doors to one of my IBA's opened for no reason and I got a text. Was able to close one remotely, had to drive out to close the other. If it wasn't for the sensors, I wouldn't have noticed until I randomly checked my cameras some time later. Have had the sensors for over a year now, they are great. One will randomly lose connection sometimes, but other than that, very solid.

 

[mjwalsh]

I have smart things sensors that monitor my two exit doors and they saved me tonight. Both doors to one of my IBA's opened for no reason and I got a text. Was able to close one remotely, had to drive out to close the other. If it wasn't for the sensors, I wouldn't have noticed until I randomly checked my cameras some time later. Have had the sensors for over a year now, they are great. One will randomly lose connection sometimes, but other than that, very solid.

Slash007,

I sounds like the Smartthings text made you check your cameras quicker ... so also having the video cam app make it kind of a one alert & then two verification. I still think it could have value in the sense you could be confident calling 911 in the event of a break in etc. The camera app would also help you to avoid a local fine for a false alarm etc. Not sure how the cameras would help the original poster with the heat tape verification as for sure working ... the Smartthings could be added reassurance temperatures are OK while he needs to be away from his car wash.

 

[Noob]

2biz what kind of clamps are those that you’re using on the manifold block? What kind of container are you sucking the wiper fluid out of? Are you running the wiper fluid through a filter before it hits the flojet?

 

[MEP001]

2biz what kind of clamps are those that you’re using on the manifold block? What kind of container are you sucking the wiper fluid out of? Are you running the wiper fluid through a filter before it hits the flojet?

He probably made them. You can purchase something similar called standoff clamps:

 

[2Biz]

I use a 15 gallon container for washer fluid. A 5 gallon bucket might work for you? No filter ahead of the flojet. Been running fine ever since I installed the system. Aluminum Blocks are home-made. The Off-The-Shelf ones Mep showed will work just as good.

 

[Sequoia]

I tried using Smartthings in two locations. I found it buggy and unreliable. I have one older hub, then bought the newer hub which required new sensors. It wasted so much of my time I finally unplugged it all and threw it away.

The deal breaker was when I finally got a few things running, Samsung triggered an auto-update. That auto-update did succeed in updating the hub, but nothing was running afterward. They didn't notify me the update was coming, and you have to manually re-activate things once the update finishes. I cannot have that sort of unreliability.

And, I learned that if the internet connection goes down, it all stops working. Which means I would not know it was not working if I was at another location.

I have intended to look at another hub that is not dependent on an internet connection. But I have not yet gotten around to that:

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