WW 2.0 error 100 and can eyes

[stampedecarwash]

Changed the measurement eyes with the long cable and the same issue which is the machine says Backup as soon as wash starts. Noticed while light 0 is on on input card 2008, the PLC input on the Lion, says its off. Pls see the pic. So somewhere between the gantry and the lion I got a disconnect for 0 which is measurement eyes. Can eyes and profiling eyes are all good, in both gantry and Lion it says On.

 

[pcb]

I'm no expert on these as I'm chasing a gremlin on a 2.0 as well. I would think either input card 2008 is not sending the signal or there could be a problem with the comm cable going from the gantry back to the red lion.

 

[stampedecarwash]

Yup will order the input card 2008 on Monday, is it a simple swap? Or no it needs to be programmed?

 

[pcb]

I just buy them used on ebay because they are pretty expensive. I just swap one wire at a time or I'll get lost. You do have to flip the top up and there's a row of dip switches. Just put them the same as the one you take off. I believe it's the address of the card. I keep a couple of used ones of each one I get off ebay and if I can't figure out the problem I just swap it out to check. If it doesn't fix anything, I mark it good. If it does fix it then throw away the old one I took off. Buying used you can try swapping for much much cheaper than buying new.

 

[stampedecarwash]

Thanks for the tip. Ebay got super cheap one like $100 vs $800 coleman is selling but they come from Chinna and it take 2 weeks. This time im in a pinch so i rush order from coleman hanna but will buy spare from ebay for future.

 

[Greg Pack]

I agree, time for an input card. The comm cable communicates via serial port so I don't think that's a problem. When a comm cable goes bad the machine usually will act totally bizarre like it's lost it's mind. Also change out relay before it is a problem. Painful experience but I'm sure you have learned a lot. These machines are really pretty simple and reliable once you understand how they work and for the quality of wash they are capable of. I think many people can troubleshoot them if they just attempt to think like the machine.

Those old banner eyes with the quick disconnect can be soldered and reconnected but I just put them in my spare parts bin. I don't think I have had to yet replace a banner eye with the long cable so to me the reliability of the machine is worth the cost. But they have risen dramatically in price. They used to be 140 or so, I think they are now $250 each.

OMRON no longer makes those PLC components, that line has been discontinued so there are potential shortages of that stuff. Coleman sent a letter out about that last year and I don't know what their solution moving forward is. You should buy spare components when you have the opportunity.

 

[stampedecarwash]

Thanks for being patient with me Greg, you did tell me few days ago to check the PLC. This is just me learning and slowly getting your instructions. Yes lots of learning and after 7 years I having this machine, I agree its low maintenance. it is however scary to know that some parts are going out of production, what does it mean? Our entire machine goes obsolete just for one part? Also thanks for confirming that it cant be the wire going to the Lion from Gantry, and most likely its the input card. I would know for sure on Tuesday.

 

[stampedecarwash]

The machine started working normal again, so here is the PLC input on the Lion when things are normal and when abnormal. While in both cases the input card 2008 on Gantry has 0 (measurement eye) as On.

 

[Greg Pack]

The reason I don't think that The comm cable is in play is because the communication from the gantry to the PLC is done via just two wires and is considered serial communication. It's a series off "on and off" signals, kind of like Morse code. So when one of those wires gets damaged (black and white in the comm cable) the wizard is unable to interpret any commands accurately. You would have an overwhelming number of errors and commands misinterpreted on both ends and the machine goes nuts.

In your case you are experiencing the same error over and over, which points to a single input problem. It's the eye 99% of the time, and it's that damned cable connector most of the time. I was told one time that banner makes the eye and Telco made the cable and the metals in the connector are dissimilar so they are corroding and going bad.

I've owned about ten different wizards over 20 years and I bet I haven't replaced more then five input cards in that time.

Coleman's PLC solution the last I heard was to eventually have a complete replacement of all the logic on the machine, probably a 10-15K upgrade. However, I suspect we will all milk all the used parts off eBay for years to come and when they dry up, it may be time for a new machine anyway. I've got just two wizards now and both are nearly twenty years old. But they work great. It would be interesting to see a complete update of the logic on that machine, we are using early 1990s' technology. However, it's proven to be damned near bulletproof.

 

[stampedecarwash]

Received the input card and going to change tomorrow. Sometime when everything looks normal on PLC and machine works normal, we get error68 and boom wont come down in the front, is that due to a bad input card aswell since its also on the same card. Wondering if i got multiple issues now.

 

[Greg Pack]

Based on the earlier discussion and potential problematic input card it could be card related so I wouldn't chase it right now. But if the card doesn't fix it it could be a prox switch or cable.

If you know how check the DC voltage on that card and make sure you have 24VDC, or very close to it.

 

[stampedecarwash]

UPDATE: Changed the Input Card today and after 20-30 cars no issue. No more Error 100, no more Backup, no more boom not dropping.
We did keep getting error68 which was due to a loose wire in the junction box on the passenger side. It was so loose that as soon as we open the junction box door and touched the wires we could see the eye light turn on/off. So what happened was when we were changing the measurement eye to wired one, we didnt secure the wire good enough, so it was loose. that would make the eye to turn off in the middle of the wash due to vibration and making the machine to go back to home position to start counting again. Anyways, all fixed now. figure crossed. Thank you Greg for your great help.