X-stream

[robblackburn]

Has anyone seen a x-stream touchelss automatic/ Here is the link to the web site..
http://x-streamwashsystems.com/
I do not think much of the web site but hopefully the machine is better. I am in the market for a dual arm overhead touchless and ran across this on the the web. Comments ?

 

[mac]

Rob I don't have any experience with this machine other than seeing their web site. That however did tell me a couple of things. First thought is why do they hit the cars with the spray at a 45 degree angle? And then brag about it? If you take any spray nozzle, fan or zero degree, and rotate it 45 degreees from the target, you loose half of the impact energy. You do not get more impact. Think about it. Would you rather have someone hit you straight on or a glancing blow? Second thought is the pricing. It's that low because they are not using distributors. Their retail is pretty much right there for manufacturers wholesale. Read the other posts on this site about the importance of distributors. I could not tell from the site if they use two pumping stations to have both arms spraying at the same time. All the other twin arm units need two pumping stations. Finally their claim about the impact, even though it's at 45 degrees, will out perform other machines is just flat out wrong. EVERY touchless machine delivers water at around 1,000 psi. No magic there. To get any touchless to clean you have to feed it good quality chemicals. Put cheap soap in the most expensive machine out there (my guess is that would be a PDQ) and all it will do is get a car wet. Put high quality soap in the cheapest machine out there and it will do a pretty decent job.

 

[robert roman]

“Has anyone seen a x-stream touchelss automatic/ Here is the link to the web site.
I do not think much of the web site but hopefully the machine is better. I am in the market for a dual arm overhead touchless and ran across this on the the web. Comments?”

I have been in a lot of areas throughout the county and have never seen one.

Consider the marketing strategy.

The company claims its machine has the lowest price and its performance in cleaning and downtime beats every competitor, even those companies that have achieved ISO certification.

The company says if you can’t fix it, mom can. Does your mother know how to repair carwash equipment?

The company sells direct, no network of authorized dealers. What do you get from Wal-Mart - lowest everyday prices and poor customer service. Shoppers have to depend on the brands of products they purchase because they can’t depend on Wal-Mart.

There is nothing wrong with low price, but you are not buying toilet paper or laundry detergent.

To my knowledge, there are no customer testimonials on the website.

Do your due diligence.

Ask for addresses of some of their locations near you that have been in operation for several years and ask those people for references.

I’m not saying the company doesn’t make a good product rather I am suggesting that you precede with caution.

Equipment spending in general fell off a cliff in 2009 and carwash equipment is increasingly becoming a commodity that is being sold on price.

Consequently, OEM’s who manufacture their equipment to high standards have become a better value.

 

[PEI]

Hi Rob,
I have seen this machine run at a C-Store location in Richmond, VA. It was developed and is built in Richmond by a gentleman who has operated IBA's at C-Stores for most of his career. As a result, it is ideal for most C-Stores. It is as close to bullet proof as any machine I have ever seen.

In the bay is an electric motor and gearbox that operate a chain drive that moves the bridge and two air actuators that operate the arms. That is it. The pump station had one high pressure giant pump and a low pressure pump. All chemicals and lines ran out to the bay in individual lines and then in to individual spray tubes, so there was no manifold that brought it back together. It offers up to 99 steps of programming so that it can wash however you want it to wash a vehicle, but it is not easy to program.

It is a highly customizable machine. If you are looking for a IBA that you can set up and just change the chemicals on, this is it. If you don't have to have a high level of clean because you are planning on offering heavily discounted washes or want to be the least expensive wash in town, this could be a good choice.

If you are looking for a high level of cleaning, an easy machine to program and interface with, a machine that can self diagnose, a machine that weeps, or a machine that creates a wide open bay with nothing on the floor, then this is not the IBA for you.

I hope this helps.

 

[PEI]

The reasons for the low price on this machine are low overhead, and almost no proprietary parts. When I visited the production facility, the machine was made one at a time in a warehouse just outside of Richmond, VA. Almost all the parts can be purchased from Kleen-Rite, Grainger, and your local high pressure hose maker. The company is primarily aimed at producing a machine for C-Store locations. The price has to be low to appeal to most C-Store owners. They work very hard to produce a quality machine at the price point that most C-Store owners are looking for.

 

[robblackburn]

Hi Rob,
I have seen this machine run at a C-Store location in Richmond, VA. It was developed and is built in Richmond by a gentleman who has operated IBA's at C-Stores for most of his career. As a result, it is ideal for most C-Stores. It is as close to bullet proof as any machine I have ever seen.

In the bay is an electric motor and gearbox that operate a chain drive that moves the bridge and two air actuators that operate the arms. That is it. The pump station had one high pressure giant pump and a low pressure pump. All chemicals and lines ran out to the bay in individual lines and then in to individual spray tubes, so there was no manifold that brought it back together. It offers up to 99 steps of programming so that it can wash however you want it to wash a vehicle, but it is not easy to program.

It is a highly customizable machine. If you are looking for a IBA that you can set up and just change the chemicals on, this is it. If you don't have to have a high level of clean because you are planning on offering heavily discounted washes or want to be the least expensive wash in town, this could be a good choice.

If you are looking for a high level of cleaning, an easy machine to program and interface with, a machine that can self diagnose, a machine that weeps, or a machine that creates a wide open bay with nothing on the floor, then this is not the IBA for you.

I hope this helps.

Thanks for the information that is a big help. When you say that the gantry is chain driven do you mean some type of belt or are you really talking about a chain? I thought that the bay floor was open on this machine. Is there some type of treadle on the floor? Does the machine not clean very well or is it just the chemical setup? There is also another new machine in the Richmond area that is from a manufacturer called EcoJet Systems. I think they also have one installed in a c-store. Have you seen this installation? I am looking for a dual arm overhead machine and I want to check out both the x-stream and the EcoJet. There are not many installs of either so I do appreciate the information. Thanks.

 

[PEI]

It has been a couple of years since I last saw the X-Stream, but I believe it was a chain drive. It used a pressure pad on the floor in place of a treadle. The one I saw had guide rails that ran the length of the bay. There was no wall mount option so it had a series of legs that came down and mounted to the floor.

The one I was shown did not satisfactorily clean any of the cars I saw run through it. I don't know if that was the chemical setup's fault or the equipment's. I operate LW4000's, so I admit I have a bias for the water hitting the vehicle head on and generating the greatest amount of impingement. During the 14 years I have been operating car washes, I have had great cleaning success with the arm between 12 and 18 inches from the side of the car and the water hitting head on. That said, the new LW360 has the ability to hit the front and back at 45 degrees. PDQ believes this to offer better cleaning, so I may be wrong about the 45 degrees.

Since I live three hours from Richmond, I haven't seen the EcoJet run, but it looks like an improved Vector. I have seen a Vector offer very effective cleaning with the right chemical setup.

I don't want to discourage you from the X-Stream, it is a very well built machine. It is just designed for a specific type of car wash operator. The better questions are: Do you want to be the cheapest car wash in town or do you want to offer a higher end IBA location? How important is a distributor to you? What type of market are you looking to put the car wash in?

There are no wrong answers to any of those questions, but the answers will better guide you in selecting the right type of car wash equipment for you.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[ToFarGone]

installed mine in 2008

2 IBA, 6 car bays, 2 truck bay, and a detail shop...30th year in biz.

I have one, I love it, rugged, reliable, easy to maintain, no expensive parts (relitavely speaking), and it cleans as well as any touchless machine I have used. I will be buying another in the future (have an old RACO to replace not ryco, RACO...old school).

Chain pulls it down the track with a little 1/2 horse eurodrive motor, no more pressure plates (all eyes now...works great, tapeswitches were giving me fits).

I like the 45 degree hit better...almost like using a shovel scoop dirt...prys it right off the side of the car. 30 years with perpendicular impact and its fine...but this is better.

The guy that made the comment about finding a good soap is 95% right. Major building block to the process...all things equal on that front you still need a machine that can hit it with pressure in the right way. Good soap and a garden hose won't always do it. Sudden impact nozzles are the cats ass and this machine has 28 of them. 14 on at a time. People will tell you how powerful it sounds to them...the joke however is on them...I am running it at 575lbs or pressure and cleaning consistantly.

I don't need a distrib...the machine is easy to work on...if I have question I call the company. The person that answers the phone is the builder and owner if he can't tell you whats up...well that just hasn't happened.

 

[ToFarGone]

Have one at our 8+2...love it! Going to get another. Hope this doesn't post twice

 

[kentadel]

I also have the X-Stream. Been in the business since 1990, and have had both friction and touchless units. I would welcome anyone to come out for a day or 2 and see mine if they are considering purchasing the X-Stream. I made 3 trips to a wash to see the unit before I pulled the trigger. I am sure the owner was glad to see me leave.
I will go with the X-Stream again when I need to replace another automatic.
It is a well designed, reliable machine.

 

[robert roman]

“I don't want to discourage you from the X-Stream, it is a very well built machine. It is just designed for a specific type of car wash operator. The better questions are: Do you want to be the cheapest car wash in town or do you want to offer a higher end IBA location? How important is a distributor to you? What type of market are you looking to put the car wash in?

There are no wrong answers to any of those questions, but the answers will better guide you in selecting the right type of car wash equipment for you.”

There you have it Rob. You got endorsements from owners and good advice from others.

However, I would at least pay some attention to PEI’s comments above.

For instance, you won’t find X-Stream at the Panty, Pacific Convenience and Fuels, Sheetz or other large or prominent gas/c-store chains.

Low priced clones like X-Stream are like the old American Rambler, a car.

The Rambler had a straight six, three speed manual transmission with steering column shifter, no floor carpets, vinyl seats, painted metal dashboard, AM radio, seats four people, etc.

Great reliable car that was virtually bullet-proof to go from point A to B.

If you wanted a ride, you bought the Ambassador. The Ambassador also went from point A to B, but it had a 327 cu in, three speed push button automatic transmission, cloth seats, floor carpets, AM/FM radio, A/C, seats six people, etc.

Like most things in life, there is usually a high and low road to take. The choice is yours.

 

[kentadel]

Would have to disagree with you Robert, it's not like a Rambler at all.

 

[JustClean]

“I don't want to discourage you from the X-Stream, it is a very well built machine. It is just designed for a specific type of car wash operator. The better questions are: Do you want to be the cheapest car wash in town or do you want to offer a higher end IBA location? How important is a distributor to you? What type of market are you looking to put the car wash in?.....

Robert,
as an operator I would agree but as a customer I couldn't care less about the ins and outs of this machine. Most of my customers wouldn't have a clue what my machine does. They only can differentiate between a touchless and a brush machine. That's all. In my opinion: if it is a good machine, does a great job, cheap spares AND is "bulletproof" I couldn't wish for more.

 

[Ric]

Anyone get a quote on an X-Stream? How much?

 

[ToFarGone]

Not sure I understand the analogy. What options does this machine lack? Mine isn't a stripped down model...actually you can't buy a stripped down model.

Maybe I don't understand. If you want to pay more for a machine with "sex appeal" go ahead. I want something that will last, do everything any other touchless machine can (and better), and be priced right.

I don't mind seeing them in a c-store...fact of the mater is, if a machine isn't tough it won't survive there. The majority of c-stores I visit have machines that get little love in the way of care. If you can survive there you can make it anywhere.

Also let me know what it was cloned from...at the time I purchased mine Belanger had the Vector (once you see the two run you will realize that having 2 arms is about all they share) and it was all that was out there. Lots of single arms that CLEARLY copy one another.

Tell me what I missed. I want to understand.

 

[robert roman]

“If you want to pay more for a machine with "sex appeal" go ahead. I want something that will last, do everything any other touchless machine can (and better), and be priced right.”

Can’t argue with lasting, better than or priced right but in an increasing number of areas this has strategy has been eclipsed by consumers who want more than this.

Hess is a player in gas/c-store and one of their sites in my neighborhood has the typical inverted-L touch-less in-bay. The self-service owner down the street wised up and installed a machine with “sex appeal.” Touch-screen, foam brushes, wheel scrubbers, tri-foam, total body protection and contoured drying. The owner charges $6 to $10. This guy is busy while Hess has gas-tie but suffers from “dry-bay” syndrome.

“The majority of c-stores I visit have machines that get little love in the way of care. If you can survive there you can make it anywhere.”

The majority of independent gas/c-store owners with carwash don’t have a clue. Here, many are boarding up their in-bays because they either don’t know how or are unwilling to do what is necessary to compete.

Big Oil has gotten out because it didn’t know how to sell convenience. Players in the convenience store industry know how to sell convenience and gas and are getting a lot better at selling food services. However, most view carwash with distain, like a necessary evil. Besides Shell USA and some privately-held chains, you won’t find very many companies that have done a good job with carwash at gas sites.

What do you think has allowed exterior express wash format to steal so much market share from in-bays? The why is not the “conveyor” but rather the format offers more convenience, better image and greater value.

“Also let me know what it was cloned from”

The basic design and operation of a dual inverted-L in-bay speaks to notion of clone or after-market version of a brand. For instance, the dual inverted-L came from another company’s single inverted-L design and operation.

 

[ToFarGone]

Appreciate your reply. Its a clean looking machine and peole like it...I am very close to the prices you listed for the stand alone wash in your example. I will, once in a while, suffer from dry bay syndrome, but until I can control the weather...

Just one last question...are we talking about the same machine? X-Stream isn't a dual "L"...actually doesn't have an "L" on it. Or was that just a for instance.

I think the express bump has been a perfect storm...all the things you listed combined with the overwhelming success of Obamanomics. Also is it really more convenient to have your car pulled through an auto instead of driving in and parking? (I guess that was TWO more questions)

 

[JustClean]

I will have closer look at this machine. Kentadel & ToFarGone seem to be very happy... Are there any more people out there who own one and would like to share their opinion?

 

[JustClean]

ToFarGone & Kentadel, how old are your machines?

 

[kentadel]

My machine is just a year old. So far so good.