Classic Car Wash
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I'm sure you all have heard this one before. What do you tell the customer?
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Your carwash scratch my car!
- Thread starter Classic Car Wash
- Start date
Maybe... Maybe Not
Carwashes have long been a great place for shifty dishonest scum-bags to go and get their vehicle vehicle paint job... or antenna... or mirror fixed by unsuspecting carwash operators who seek to safeguard their reputation.
As well, we also realize that occasionally a nice, honest customer notices a scratch on their car that they didn't notice prior to the wash. Mostly, these people never really scrutinize their car except after it's been washed, during their inspection.
This issue has been greatly diminished by a comprehensive system of video cameras that capture the vehicle's image on tape for closer scrutiny of before-and-after assessment. Prior to cameras, as well as even today, we can look at the scratch and determine if it really is equipment related. If only one vehicle has a problem, and others that ran just before... and after have no similar damage, the likelihood is diminished, but still possible. A close inspection of the scratch, and determination of what equipment might be involved can also provide a clue for investigation.
(continued)
Carwashes have long been a great place for shifty dishonest scum-bags to go and get their vehicle vehicle paint job... or antenna... or mirror fixed by unsuspecting carwash operators who seek to safeguard their reputation.
As well, we also realize that occasionally a nice, honest customer notices a scratch on their car that they didn't notice prior to the wash. Mostly, these people never really scrutinize their car except after it's been washed, during their inspection.
This issue has been greatly diminished by a comprehensive system of video cameras that capture the vehicle's image on tape for closer scrutiny of before-and-after assessment. Prior to cameras, as well as even today, we can look at the scratch and determine if it really is equipment related. If only one vehicle has a problem, and others that ran just before... and after have no similar damage, the likelihood is diminished, but still possible. A close inspection of the scratch, and determination of what equipment might be involved can also provide a clue for investigation.
(continued)
After all is said and done, logic usually prevails... and even though the carwash may not be at fault, sensible operators will try to offer some assistance in an attempt to turn lemon into lemonade, and restore a good relationship. Often times, it requires a quick spot-buff. 
If, on the other hand, paint is seriously damaged, and there is no easy fix short of refinishing the paint, a formal damage claim will follow. Damage must be proven to have occurred at the carwash, and honest, fair-handed discussion and even negotiation will ensue to a fair disposition.
Some carwash operators merely decide to not honor any damage claims and have signage to support their claim.
However, that bluff only works so often, and then things often heat up and get ugly. Fortunately, most operators take a more responsible route and try to keep their customers happy. In the grand scheme of things, few customers are inclined to defraud the carwash, especially if (aside from the mishap) they normally like patronizing the carwash.
The best way to handle things is to be fair and honest, and quickly accept responsibility whenever it is the fault of the carwash. If the damage obviously happened elsewhere, state your case and remain firm... with the option of extending the courtesy of complimentary services to restore faith and regain a smiling customer... if the damage is slight and the fix is easy. Although you weren't responsible, you made the sacrifice to help a customer out.
All the while, never feel so smug that you ignore the possibility of a micro-pebble somehow got imbedded in the washing material and actually did leave a mark.
If, on the other hand, paint is seriously damaged, and there is no easy fix short of refinishing the paint, a formal damage claim will follow. Damage must be proven to have occurred at the carwash, and honest, fair-handed discussion and even negotiation will ensue to a fair disposition.Some carwash operators merely decide to not honor any damage claims and have signage to support their claim.
However, that bluff only works so often, and then things often heat up and get ugly. Fortunately, most operators take a more responsible route and try to keep their customers happy. In the grand scheme of things, few customers are inclined to defraud the carwash, especially if (aside from the mishap) they normally like patronizing the carwash.The best way to handle things is to be fair and honest, and quickly accept responsibility whenever it is the fault of the carwash. If the damage obviously happened elsewhere, state your case and remain firm... with the option of extending the courtesy of complimentary services to restore faith and regain a smiling customer... if the damage is slight and the fix is easy. Although you weren't responsible, you made the sacrifice to help a customer out.
All the while, never feel so smug that you ignore the possibility of a micro-pebble somehow got imbedded in the washing material and actually did leave a mark.
Earl Weiss
Well-known member
,,,
It all depends. I closely inspect it . If it is thru to the bare metal and has been there even a day it will show rust. I tell them it doesn't rust in 30 seconds.
Next, if the scratch is only an inch or so long I explain that we wash the whole car the same way and if something at this level made a scratch, it would run the entire length of the car.
Next I invite them to look at all the other cars coming out of the tunnel. We wash them all the same way! If there was an issue with the equipment, they would all have similar scratches.
I also inspect the car for any other scratches and ask about those as well. The best are the guys with 42 scratches and claiming that we did 1 or 2 of them.
A guy the other day had smashes on the front bumper and severe rust on every panel. His grill came off at the blowers and he, along with his friend were trying to tell me I was responsible for that because the grill was fine when it went in.
Earl Weiss
Well-known member
Another guy with a BMW says a piece of his front bumper came off . Met him at the wash and he shows me where he glued in a 4 inch long by 1 inch strip to replace the part that came off. He says there was a seperate piece there that covers bolt holes. I ask where he got the piece he glued in. He opens his trunk and pulls ourt some spare bumper pieces. I ask "You carry spare bumper pieces with you?" He says "Oh these are from the old bumper. I just replaced this one." I gave him a couple of free washes.
Todd's Car Wash
New member
This reminds me of my favorite damage claim that happened a few years ago. We paid $0 and the guy learned a valuable lesson. Don't try to fraud a car wash.
A Pontiac Grand Am came into our Johnston St location for an express wash and it was obvious on the surveillance camera that his left-side mirror was already broken and he duct taped it back on. Even though he didn't say it, it was obvious he wanted a new one and that we were going to pay for it by "breaking it".
Our prep guys didn't think anything of it and sent the car through. I guess he just wanted the mitter curtain to loosen it up and knock it off, but once it got to the wrap around, it grabbed the mirror and slammed it into the window a few times, shattering the glass and scaring the crap out of the customer still inside the car.
Then came the omnis.. tri-color.. spot-free rinse.. Stripper..
We offered to towel him down but he refused. I don't think he'll do that again.
A Pontiac Grand Am came into our Johnston St location for an express wash and it was obvious on the surveillance camera that his left-side mirror was already broken and he duct taped it back on. Even though he didn't say it, it was obvious he wanted a new one and that we were going to pay for it by "breaking it".
Our prep guys didn't think anything of it and sent the car through. I guess he just wanted the mitter curtain to loosen it up and knock it off, but once it got to the wrap around, it grabbed the mirror and slammed it into the window a few times, shattering the glass and scaring the crap out of the customer still inside the car.
Then came the omnis.. tri-color.. spot-free rinse.. Stripper..
We offered to towel him down but he refused. I don't think he'll do that again.
The first thing to do is to have a damage claim form in place for the customer to fill out for we are not at the wash all 84 hours a week we are open. We place a sheet of carbon paper between two forms. This allows us to get a copy and one for the customer. Just having the form takes a lot of steam out of a customer's sails.
If we are on site, the employees will come get myself or my partner to evaluate the claim. The single most important thing I have found is to be courteous and to take each claim seriously. Blowing them out of the water immediately gets you nowhere and creates acrimony. A claim, whether you wind up accepting it or not is an opportunity to demonstrate to the customer your professionalism. Even if you agree to disagree and deny the claim you can at least know that you tried to get the customer to see it your way with respect for them.
We have many video cameras, so we its easy to tell if a wiper blade, or hood ornament was there when they came in or if a side view mirror was already damaged. Of course, scratches are another matter. Even if you have one of those arches with cameras on it, it cannot see under all the dirt and salt on a vehicle. Only after the vehicle has been cleaned can this type of damage be seen which is the reason for the statement, "I know it wasn't there when I came in."
Short and deep, or vertical scratches on the side, or side to side scrtches on the hood, roof, or trunk are the easiest to deal. Since side washers and wraps rotate horizontally and our Lammscloth mitters do not move at all and metal to metal contact that causes a short deep scratch impossible. So what we do is explain to customers these facts. Next we offer to take them into the car wash and explain our entire process and let them feel the Lammscloth as it rotates so that they fully understand the equipment and how it operates. By the time I'm through with them 90% understand that it could not have happened at our facility.
If we are on site, the employees will come get myself or my partner to evaluate the claim. The single most important thing I have found is to be courteous and to take each claim seriously. Blowing them out of the water immediately gets you nowhere and creates acrimony. A claim, whether you wind up accepting it or not is an opportunity to demonstrate to the customer your professionalism. Even if you agree to disagree and deny the claim you can at least know that you tried to get the customer to see it your way with respect for them.
We have many video cameras, so we its easy to tell if a wiper blade, or hood ornament was there when they came in or if a side view mirror was already damaged. Of course, scratches are another matter. Even if you have one of those arches with cameras on it, it cannot see under all the dirt and salt on a vehicle. Only after the vehicle has been cleaned can this type of damage be seen which is the reason for the statement, "I know it wasn't there when I came in."
Short and deep, or vertical scratches on the side, or side to side scrtches on the hood, roof, or trunk are the easiest to deal. Since side washers and wraps rotate horizontally and our Lammscloth mitters do not move at all and metal to metal contact that causes a short deep scratch impossible. So what we do is explain to customers these facts. Next we offer to take them into the car wash and explain our entire process and let them feel the Lammscloth as it rotates so that they fully understand the equipment and how it operates. By the time I'm through with them 90% understand that it could not have happened at our facility.
Of course you are not going to satisfy all. What we will try to do for them as well as for others is try to buff the scratch out (if it is light enough) even if we do not admit liability simply as a matter of courtesy.
The trickier thing is to deny the claim but offer free services in lieu of repair, for then you admitted laibility which they can use against you in small claims court.
The trickier thing is to deny the claim but offer free services in lieu of repair, for then you admitted laibility which they can use against you in small claims court.
I have had many people claim that we scratched thier car. It's impossible. We tested it. I put a fishing lure in the mitter and ran my mom's brand new black lexus thru multiple times. No damage!!! It's a shame that the manafacturers and our associations don't take a stronger stance in helping overcome these urban myths. There was a study done back in the late 70's or early 80's with some university in texas along with Mercedes that proved that hand washing your car did as much if not more damage to the the clear coat than a machine wash. I tried to get the study from ICA; they say it's no longer avail because it's out dated. Well we figured out the world wasn't flat a long time ago too!!!! Whats is SO funny is that even brand new vehicles have pretty severe scratches on them. Lot jockeys or outside companies who clean cars on the lots will do more damage because they don't care and nobody is watchin. "OOPs dropped the wash mitt on the ground"-- We need some real ammo for proving these issues to our customers! I could go oN and ON!
Oh I read that report it is on Fast Track Car Wash website down at the bottom of the page. http://www.fasttrackcarwash.com/SAFE.htm
Erik
Erik
Bogus Study
Sadly, the study is bogus, and an embarrassment to the ICA. Yes, the "study" was funded by carwash money, and stilted almost as much as studies funded by the Tobacco Institute about safe cigarettes.
The handwash was done with a small amount of dishwashing soap (liquid Ivory) and a sponge. The hose didn't have an automatic shut-off nozzle, and was simply left running for the duration of the washing "test", showing a crazy amount of water... down the drain. The objective of the initiative was to generate evidence for PR purposes to offer credibility to the motoring public. Everything in the activity was targeted at showing the automatic process with poly-bristle brushes (pre-cloth era) and ample lubrication from high lubricity soaps... versus the driveway carwasher. The fix was in... and the carwash emerged as the absolute winner... while the driveway washer had a hood full of residue and marks.
Fact is, you can do a poor job with either process... as well as an outstanding one. People who still use this study as validation should also be embarrassed... because it is based on lies and deception. It's a pathetic joke!
Sadly, the study is bogus, and an embarrassment to the ICA.
Yes, the "study" was funded by carwash money, and stilted almost as much as studies funded by the Tobacco Institute about safe cigarettes.The handwash was done with a small amount of dishwashing soap (liquid Ivory) and a sponge. The hose didn't have an automatic shut-off nozzle, and was simply left running for the duration of the washing "test", showing a crazy amount of water... down the drain.
The objective of the initiative was to generate evidence for PR purposes to offer credibility to the motoring public. Everything in the activity was targeted at showing the automatic process with poly-bristle brushes (pre-cloth era) and ample lubrication from high lubricity soaps... versus the driveway carwasher. The fix was in... and the carwash emerged as the absolute winner... while the driveway washer had a hood full of residue and marks.Fact is, you can do a poor job with either process... as well as an outstanding one. People who still use this study as validation should also be embarrassed... because it is based on lies and deception. It's a pathetic joke!
Earl Weiss
Well-known member
Here is a link to (excerpts from?) the study.
http://www.villagecarwash.net/pdf/TexasCarWashStudy.pdf
People can draw their own conclusions from methodologies.
http://www.villagecarwash.net/pdf/TexasCarWashStudy.pdf
People can draw their own conclusions from methodologies.
The PR Version
Earl...
Hey, I'm only offering some balance to the story. It happened when I operated carwashes and was a distributor who also built them. Yet, I've always found the absurdity of it all to be an embarrassment to our business. If credible testing done by truly impartial scientists with valid controls that weren't funded by the carwash industry, it would have been acceptable. If DuPont or even ICAR would have initiated the study for real fact-finding, maybe there would be a greater level of acceptance and trust. But instead, the paint manufacturers all endorsed hand-carwashing. Don't you find that a bit strange? Mercedes-Benz even recommended hand-carwashing!
Yes, it's a compilation of the press releases. And there were several versions; each "study" came out years apart. One study is early 1970's, and the other was later 70's. Most operators used the PR reprint offered by ICA until some tough questions were asked. Curiously, nobody at ICA had any comment at the time. As you may remember, things were a lot different back then. Driveway washing was the undisputed preference of consumers.
Both automatics were pre-cloth washing material, at a time when pre-flagged plastic bristles were the state of the art.
Yet I still recall the radio commercials run by a high profile carwash owner alerting the public to cars being scratched at carwashes with bristles. Silly, huh? At times, carwash owners have been their own worst enemies.
An old friend on the ICA board at the time once shared with me in confidence, "You can slice it thick... or slice it thin. It's still baloney". But it did what it was intended and initially worked in pacifying those operators who sought "scientific" validation.
If you think readers are able to draw their own conclusions from a slick PR piece, fine. Ask ICA for a copy of the actual study and see what you're told. Same is true with Mercedes.
Earl...
Hey, I'm only offering some balance to the story. It happened when I operated carwashes and was a distributor who also built them. Yet, I've always found the absurdity of it all to be an embarrassment to our business. If credible testing done by truly impartial scientists with valid controls that weren't funded by the carwash industry, it would have been acceptable. If DuPont or even ICAR would have initiated the study for real fact-finding, maybe there would be a greater level of acceptance and trust. But instead, the paint manufacturers all endorsed hand-carwashing. Don't you find that a bit strange? Mercedes-Benz even recommended hand-carwashing!
Yes, it's a compilation of the press releases. And there were several versions; each "study" came out years apart. One study is early 1970's, and the other was later 70's. Most operators used the PR reprint offered by ICA until some tough questions were asked. Curiously, nobody at ICA had any comment at the time. As you may remember, things were a lot different back then. Driveway washing was the undisputed preference of consumers.
Both automatics were pre-cloth washing material, at a time when pre-flagged plastic bristles were the state of the art.
Yet I still recall the radio commercials run by a high profile carwash owner alerting the public to cars being scratched at carwashes with bristles. Silly, huh? At times, carwash owners have been their own worst enemies.
An old friend on the ICA board at the time once shared with me in confidence, "You can slice it thick... or slice it thin. It's still baloney". But it did what it was intended and initially worked in pacifying those operators who sought "scientific" validation.
If you think readers are able to draw their own conclusions from a slick PR piece, fine. Ask ICA for a copy of the actual study and see what you're told. Same is true with Mercedes.
Earl Weiss
Well-known member
Strange doesn't even begin to cut it. Recentlty we had the Lexus / Toyota Bulletin that seemed to state that machine washing was bad, yet Lexus dealers were using the very same machines at their dealerships with the knowlege, and approval and virtual endorsement of Lexus.
when called to account, no one at Lexu / Toyota seemed willing to back up their position or even admit who sent the notice.
Car sales people would tell people not to use machine washes when many dealers were using rolllover machines to wash the cars. I wouldn't be surprsed to find Mercedes dealers doing it as well.
Yep , it would be great to have "Independant Studies" but since no one wants to fund them, they are not likely to happen.
when called to account, no one at Lexu / Toyota seemed willing to back up their position or even admit who sent the notice.
Car sales people would tell people not to use machine washes when many dealers were using rolllover machines to wash the cars. I wouldn't be surprsed to find Mercedes dealers doing it as well.
Yep , it would be great to have "Independant Studies" but since no one wants to fund them, they are not likely to happen.
A customer said that his car dealer told him not to use brush machines as they would scratch the cars. Great advertising! I got one of my lady employees out to all dealerships in town to set the records straight and to ask them if they would like to hand out free car washes to their new car buyers. Of course they would. Didn't cost them anything and I got most vouchers back with new customers.
Classic Car Wash
New member
Well here we go, with winter comes more bogus claims. People always seem to forget about the snow and ice they removed with the ice scraper.
We do need an educational video for sure. Maybe it's time one of us does it. I would donate my facility and my 87 Buick Grand National show car.
Now who has some video equipment?
We do need an educational video for sure. Maybe it's time one of us does it. I would donate my facility and my 87 Buick Grand National show car.
Now who has some video equipment?
