Repeat offenders and the Kia Optima

[carnut2]

Had a customer claim we scratched his rims on his 2013 Kia Optima. I reviewed his video and sure enough the wheels come in fine , he enters the conveyor cleanly and there is no apparent reason for the damage. I checked my conveyor up and down and see nothing. So I call the dealership and order a replacement. (Turns our the customer works at the dealership)
I wash thousands of cars over the next few weeks and then today, same guy same car comes in and says now I have scratched BOTH of his driver side rims. Happens my equipment guy is there and sees nothing in the conveyor that would cause this.

So I am pretty sure I am getting played but not sure how to prove it. I looked up on forums about Kias and their tendency to pull left which would match the damage on the rims but not sure if that would be true in neutral.

Any ideas? I will definitely refuse to wash this car/customer again but I want to make sure I am not missing something

 

[Washmee]

Does your conveyor have plastic rails? Do you have tire brushes or tire shiners?

 

[sudsurfer]

We have plastic rails the entire length and tire shiner. The car did not get the tire package.

 

[Earl Weiss]

The only way to know is to let the car go thru with at least on good DS Rime and walk along side. If no issues refuse pmt.

 

[rph9168]

I think you are getting jobbed. Not sure many people would go back to a wash that damaged their vehicle. He got away with in once so he tried it again. I find it highly unlikely that this one type of vehicle has this problem and the fact that he works at a KIA dealership make it even more suspicious. I think Earl's suggestion would put this all to rest. I might even want him to come with you through the wash as long as their was no personal liability involved. This seems like the kind of guy that would sue you if his shoes got wet.

 

[Washmee]

We have plastic rails the entire length and tire shiner. The car did not get the tire package.

Even your correlator?

 

[sudsurfer]

Even your correlator? Yes the correlator has plastic protection.

 

[Washmee]

Even your correlator? Yes the correlator has plastic protection.

I wouldn't pay.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Car Nut - Your OP says videos show wheels cam e in fine. Did you see wheels immediately after or did the guy come back later.

FWIW I have been amazed that stuff "Can't Happen" but has. Conversely when it couldn't have happened I have offered to wash a car again while walking it thru with the customer observing and tell the customer if whatever allegedly happened recurs I will accept responsibility, if not I won't. About 50% take me up on it and about 50% of those will accept we did not cause the issue when it doesn't recur. (Granted this whole scenario is probably less than once a year)

 

[sudsurfer]

Car Nut - Your OP says videos show wheels cam e in fine. Did you see wheels immediately after or did the guy come back later.

FWIW I have been amazed that stuff "Can't Happen" but has. Conversely when it couldn't have happened I have offered to wash a car again while walking it thru with the customer observing and tell the customer if whatever allegedly happened recurs I will accept responsibility, if not I won't. About 50% take me up on it and about 50% of those will accept we did not cause the issue when it doesn't recur. (Granted this whole scenario is probably less than once a year)

Customer came right around. Also said we scratched his fender, I told him I saw that scratch on camera and he said "Don't worry about the fender, just the wheel." I know it didn't happen at our wash, but do not have a good way to disprove it. I am going to invite him in and watch cars, and his also go thru. If like Earl said, nothing happens, don't pay, but what if their as persistent as this guy. How do you all handle these customers?

 

[rph9168]

Simple - refuse to pay. Most people will back off when they realize their game is up and you are serious about refusing to pay. The few times we ended up in small claims court we won the majority of the time by bringing our volume figures and stating that we had no other claims of that nature. I would also say in this case it there was also damage to the fender would add to the proof you did not do it and that the damage occurred when the fender was scratched, not at your wash.

 

[Earl Weiss]

If there mind is made up nothing you do or say will convince them of there error. As I said it seems to run 50/50 with regard to those who will accept what you have them observe with their own eyes.

 

[DiamondWash]

I'm seeing more and more of this vehicle inspection system at each tunnel wash I visit, they have one set at the front and one set at the rear of the the tunnel.

http://www.carwashcameras.com/hd-megapixel-vehicle-inspection-system.shtml

 

[hkim310]

The burden of proof rests with the customer if he takes you to court to prove that the damage happened at your wash. I find it very difficult for any customer to be able to prove that........

DiamondWash, it's funny that you mention the NSPEX CCTV Camera System. We are in the process of building our own right now! We have just finished the arch structure and are running the Cat 5 cables right now. We did not go with that company as we were able to find the camera's and DVR along with the metal to build the sturcture for cheaper than they were offering the entire system. We ended up getting our camera's and DVR from Samsung. One thing I have learned with cameras/CCTV systems is you get what you pay for when you are trying to get super detailed images to identify scratches or damage on a car. Everything should be completed within the next 2 weeks....will keep you all posted as to how it turns out!

 

[TEEBOX]

The burden of proof rests with the customer if he takes you to court to prove that the damage happened at your wash. I find it very difficult for any customer to be able to prove that........

DiamondWash, it's funny that you mention the NSPEX CCTV Camera System. We are in the process of building our own right now! We have just finished the arch structure and are running the Cat 5 cables right now. We did not go with that company as we were able to find the camera's and DVR along with the metal to build the sturcture for cheaper than they were offering the entire system. We ended up getting our camera's and DVR from Samsung. One thing I have learned with cameras/CCTV systems is you get what you pay for when you are trying to get super detailed images to identify scratches or damage on a car. Everything should be completed within the next 2 weeks....will keep you all posted as to how it turns out!

Please send us pics when you finish!

 

[mrfixit]

I dont have a connveyor but to add to the support here..

Sounds like bs to me. You know where it could possibly happen, and it doesn't exist. If I couldn't replicate how it happened in some way it probably didn't happenat all.

You say they were fine on video.. Maybe the video doesn't show the wheel clear enough? You are saying you know it was not damaged by your wash right.

Never admit guilt, without proving to yourself that you were at fault. Only look into it initially. Once you take responsibility for it, you have given up your rights and wrongly admited guilt. As far as I'm concerned the burden of proof falls on them for something thats not some obvious malfunction. I'm not saying be rude to legitimate concerns, but don't pay for something you didn't do.

The rims could very very easily have been scratched before hand. Many are.. Can they prove they weren't scratched before hand. Maybe he goes somewhere right before he comes to carwash, like the bank drive thru and scratches the rim there, then goes through your wash gets out looks at the car and now sees scratches... Your wash scratched my car is the first thing they think every time...

Measure the level of the damage on the wheel from the ground, does it line up with anything in your lane that could be a possible culprit.? Most likely you'll find it doesn't match up in any way with contact points. Does The width and depth of scratch match a possible rub point. Watch some csi and prove to him he's fos. ( or wrongly accusing)

Remind him that right before and after his car; a Lexus and Mercedes (ect) went through with no problem. Other kia's just like his too no complaints.

I had one lady receny with a scratch on trunk lid, thought it was our wash.. Its an inverted L auto, not even physically possible. Lol. Just explained (or showed) how it wasn't physically possible and that she just didn't notice it till now when she was looking at how clean her car was.

Yeah and his scratch claim that you don't have to worry about pretty much did away with any credibility he has.
He could have had the tires swapped around to claim another scratched wheel. Fact is he has to prove you did it. And it's sounds highly unlikely. Get some cameras along the conveyor too.

 

[TEEBOX]

I dont have a connveyor but to add to the support here..

Sounds like bs to me. You know where it could possibly happen, and it doesn't exist. If I couldn't replicate how it happened in some way it probably didn't happenat all.

You say they were fine on video.. Maybe the video doesn't show the wheel clear enough? You are saying you know it was not damaged by your wash right.

Never admit guilt, without proving to yourself that you were at fault. Only look into it initially. Once you take responsibility for it, you have given up your rights and wrongly admited guilt. As far as I'm concerned the burden of proof falls on them for something thats not some obvious malfunction. I'm not saying be rude to legitimate concerns, but don't pay for something you didn't do.

The rims could very very easily have been scratched before hand. Many are.. Can they prove they weren't scratched before hand. Maybe he goes somewhere right before he comes to carwash, like the bank drive thru and scratches the rim there, then goes through your wash gets out looks at the car and now sees scratches... Your wash scratched my car is the first thing they think every time...

Measure the level of the damage on the wheel from the ground, does it line up with anything in your lane that could be a possible culprit.? Most likely you'll find it doesn't match up in any way with contact points. Does The width and depth of scratch match a possible rub point. Watch some csi and prove to him he's fos. ( or wrongly accusing)

Remind him that right before and after his car; a Lexus and Mercedes (ect) went through with no problem. Other kia's just like his too no complaints.

I had one lady receny with a scratch on trunk lid, thought it was our wash.. Its an inverted L auto, not even physically possible. Lol. Just explained (or showed) how it wasn't physically possible and that she just didn't notice it till now when she was looking at how clean her car was.

Yeah and his scratch claim that you don't have to worry about pretty much did away with any credibility he has.
He could have had the tires swapped around to claim another scratched wheel. Fact is he has to prove you did it. And it's sounds highly unlikely. Get some cameras along the conveyor too.

Yesterday, I had a lady get a wash package that included the underbody service. I noticed that after her wash that she pulled over to the side of the building with her engine hood open. As a courtesy I asked if there was something wrong. She said that her water level was low as she was filling up her radiator reservoir with fluid. I told her that it looks like the radiator was leaking or it may just be a hose line. Nevertheless, it was leaking out on the pavement. She said that my washed caused the leak. I asked her "HOW?"

She said well it didn't leak when she came entered. I said not many people I know carry a gallon of radiator fluid in their vehicles unless their was a previous problem. I directed her to a mechanics shop across the street and told her have a great day!

I did check the lot and did see fluid from her vehicle at the entrance. Checked cameras but not much detail there.

Underbody nozzles not that strong to cause that kind of problem. As an operator, I'm amazed as to what some people say to blame us for problems with their vehicles.

 

[rph9168]

The problem we always had with rim claims was that they almost always come in dirty. After they are cleaned any problems will be easily seen. As many have already said you should never take any initial responsibility. As far as the burden of proof goes I believe that is not as clear cut as many think it is. A lot depends on the judge if you take it to small claims court. Although we won the vast majority of claims (there really wasn't that many) I remember one that we lost that we did not cause the damage but since it was a new car the judge said we must have done it and we had to pay.

 

[mrfixit]

Yesterday, I had a lady get a wash package that included the underbody service. I noticed that after her wash that she pulled over to the side of the building with her engine hood open. As a courtesy I asked if there was something wrong. She said that her water level was low as she was filling up her radiator reservoir with fluid. I told her that it looks like the radiator was leaking or it may just be a hose line. Nevertheless, it was leaking out on the pavement. She said that my washed caused the leak. I asked her "HOW?"

She said well it didn't leak when she came entered. I said not many people I know carry a gallon of radiator fluid in their vehicles unless their was a previous problem. I directed her to a mechanics shop across the street and told her have a great day!

I did check the lot and did see fluid from her vehicle at the entrance. Checked cameras but not much detail there.

Underbody nozzles not that strong to cause that kind of problem. As an operator, I'm amazed as to what some people say to blame us for problems with their vehicles.

Lol funny, right they always bust themselves. No leaks, no coolant in trunk. Lol its like how do you know for sure, did you inspect for any leaks before entering.

Actually I did personally have a problem from underbody spray in my own vehicle once. Not the washes fault though.. I had a 2000 Volvo s70 and the y pipe was fully hot, must have had a weak spot or crack, after the underspray hit it - it split it open. Like I said it was a existing problem and not the washes fault, it would have probablu been the next big puddle that would have popped it.... A customer would try to claim for sure.

No other car I know of had ever had that happen. It was $$ stainless and I had it welded for cheap and it was all good.

 

[rph9168]

It is important not to apply too much pressure for an underbody wash. (I miss the days before PC when they used to call it a Bottom Blast) On some vehicles if the spray gets under the hood due to too much pressure it can cause problems with an electronic ignition which can be a costly repair.