Emeffing chargebacks!

[JGinther]

I doubt we are the only one dealing with this bee es... but in the last couple months, we have had a slew of chargebacks from our merchant provider. Every singe one claims 'chip pin liability shift'. And what really peeohs us is that the issuing bank charges us an additional 10 bucks on top of the chargeback amount! Whats worse is that the dates of the chargebacks are from charges over 2 months ago which exceeds our DVR records - and they claim that video surveillance is insufficient! While there isn't a whole lot we can do about this since most of our vendors don't even have a chip-pin fix yet, the fact that the banks charge for a profit on top of it really gets under the skin! I actually think our industry could offer up a class action lawsuit if this is happening everywhere (on the basis that our industry doesn't have the chip-pin components and software available yet).

 

[6t7gto]

Every time I start to consider CC acceptance, I read something like this.
Also high merchant fees, possibility of being outdated.
What did these charge backs total?
50 bucks...100 bucks...more?

 

[Earl Weiss]

Welcome to my world. Try Selling Gas with Pay at the Pump. First they ask for a signed slip. Then they will take a printout from the POS system. Then they will reverse Chargeback, then bank still objects and they ask if you still want to dispute and go to arbitration and pay $500.00. Since it's a $50.00 item who would do this. I strike all wording about paying the $500 and say I still want to object. I try to cost them more in time than the fight is worth. If it's a $5.00 wash chargeback I don't even waste my time. Biggest scam is that all the need to do is require a PIN and not the Billing zip which is likely the one on your license in the same wallet you lost with the CC. There needs to be a law. They need to allow a surcharge for CC use and shift the liability where it belongs - To Card issuers who have the technology of a simple PIN that will eliminate fraud.

 

[chaz]

I believe c/c surcharge IS allowed. Using a pin would be same issue as using chip tech, my car wash equipment from ha Klein doesn't support this. At ao with point I assume an upgrade will be available for the chip, just not sure the cost factor.

I guess I'm lucky, just one charge back ($13) at my wash in 8 plus years.

 

[BBE]

Just went round and round with one of our merchants about this a few weeks ago. Customer charged back a 20 dollar charge in one of my self serve bays that happened 2 MONTHS AGO. Of course I don't have video footage of it anymore. Was told that because it was a chip and pin and the customer swiped it instead of using the chip on it that I don't accept the chip cards in the proper way so I am liable for it. I told them that there isn't any equipment that they offer for my business that will allow me to accept chip and pin in my self serve bays.

Options...I guess you can actually opt to not accept chip cards at your facility. If someone swipes their chip card it will just get declined and they won't be able to pay via card. It's only happened once to me so far, knock on wood, our in bay credit card acceptance hardware/software as well as our online merchant gateway both have the ability to "blacklist" a credit card name/number. So that if this person who did a charge back tries to use their card again at my facility it will just decline it and not let them pay via that card.

Bottom line....it's a big mess. I'm curious how keyed in transactions work. Like when amazon has my chip and pin card number on file and I buy something. What if I do a charge back on something? As far as I know they never took my card via chip...same would apply to a carwash doing unlimited monthly billings on a persons card.

 

[JGinther]

In the last month, I think we have had 6 chargebacks. Each around 10 to 12 bucks, so after the issuing banks charge for profit on top of the chargeback amount, I think we are out 125 bucks or so. Not much, but when you add to that the cost associated with my life shortening up by 5 years from the stress of being peeohed all the time (which I'm sure probably causes big toe cancer or something), well, I want to fix it. First thing I'm going to do is find the issueing banks address, then I'm going to get even the old fashion way.... Thankfully, my customers have taught me how to do this!

 

[Earl Weiss]

I believe c/c surcharge IS allowed. Using a pin would be same issue as using chip tech, my car wash equipment from ha Klein doesn't support this. At ao with point I assume an upgrade will be available for the chip, just not sure the cost factor.

I guess I'm lucky, just one charge back ($13) at my wash in 8 plus years.

Typically the wording is what counts. Discount for cash - OK. Surcharge for CC may violate merchant agreement and local laws. PIN is not the same issue as using Chip. Chip purportedly eliminates card mag stripe cloning.
But with PIN requirement a cloned card is useless without the PIN. But some crooks have developed devises that sit on tip of stripe readers and have cameras that capture the PIn while the other device captures the stripe for cloning.

 

[Overachiever]

@JGinther have you done anything about your chargebacks or have they stopped coming?

I've never received a chargeback from my automatic bays but in the last two months I've had 7 chargebacks from my stupid vending machine. On top of losing the product, the $1.00 they spent, they are adding a $7.00 fee for the chargeback.

Seems like I probably need to stop accepting credit cards on the vending machine because someone could just buy out all the products and ding me for thousands in chargeback fees and hundreds in merchant processing when they file the dispute.

I installed some of those new Lorex cameras but so far the disputes have always been outside the range the cameras have been recording but I put in a new 8TB drive (10TB total) so maybe I'll be able to catch these guys on camera next time...

 

[slash007]

What are they claiming when the file a chargeback? That they didn't get the product? If that is the case, you need to get one of the guaranteed delivery machines. I haven't had a complaint in 2 years after getting 4-5 a week before.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I've never received a chargeback from my automatic bays but in the last two months I've had 7 chargebacks from my stupid vending machine. On top of losing the product, the $1.00 they spent, they are adding a $7.00 fee for the chargeback.

Seems like I probably need to stop accepting credit cards on the vending machine because someone could just buy out all the products and ding me for thousands in chargeback fees and hundreds in merchant processing when they file the dispute.

..

More likely is credit card theives use you as well as many other similar non face to face charge operations to test if a card is cancelled once stolen.

After they see it sis good then they go buy expensive stuff. Customer kills all bad charges including the test.

The real solution is legislation to stop the credit card companies from shifting their liability to merchants simply because they can. They have the technology to stop this immediately by simply requiring a PIN (and not the billing Zip code which more than likely is in the same wallet that had the card) They have no incentive to implement the technology if they can shift the liability to someone else.

 

[Overachiever]

What are they claiming when the file a chargeback? That they didn't get the product? If that is the case, you need to get one of the guaranteed delivery machines. I haven't had a complaint in 2 years after getting 4-5 a week before.

They are saying the transaction was fraudulent, so it being a non-chip reader is what's hosing me.

I don't think it is guaranteed but it does try to deliver the item a couple times if it doesn't see that it dropped. I haven't had a single complaint from any of the cash customers about it not delivering the items.

 

[JGinther]

@JGinther have you done anything about your chargebacks or have they stopped coming?

I've never received a chargeback from my automatic bays but in the last two months I've had 7 chargebacks from my stupid vending machine. On top of losing the product, the $1.00 they spent, they are adding a $7.00 fee for the chargeback.

Seems like I probably need to stop accepting credit cards on the vending machine because someone could just buy out all the products and ding me for thousands in chargeback fees and hundreds in merchant processing when they file the dispute.

I installed some of those new Lorex cameras but so far the disputes have always been outside the range the cameras have been recording but I put in a new 8TB drive (10TB total) so maybe I'll be able to catch these guys on camera next time...

Nope, just keep getting them. Just got one yesterday for $53.50. Every one of them is labeled "counterfeit transaction" as the reason for dispute. We have video of every single one, but the chargeback dept doesn't accept it as evidence. Somehow a signature is more reasonable evidence in their wee brains. Every time I think of it I start fuming, but don't know who to punch.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Nope, just keep getting them. Just got one yesterday for $53.50. Every one of them is labeled "counterfeit transaction" as the reason for dispute. We have video of every single one, but the chargeback dept doesn't accept it as evidence. Somehow a signature is more reasonable evidence in their wee brains. Every time I think of it I start fuming, but don't know who to punch.

Get shafted at the Gas Station even with a signed slip. Still claim fraud and say I should get a driver license ID to protect myself. If I wnat to further contest and arbitrate I have to agree to pay the $500 arbitration cost. I take the form and cross out all the lingo saying I agree to pay any cost. I figure I'll cost them a lot in time to review what I send even if I don't win.

This needs a legislative fix.

 

[Overachiever]

I made the call and am no longer going to accept credit cards in my vending machine... seemed like it was my only option if I want the vending machine to make any money.

 

[slash007]

That's seems like the right call based on all of the trouble you've had. Surprised you waited this long. Sucks that it comes to that.

 

[Greg Pack]

I get very few, maybe a few per year, and at the low dollar amount they're not even worth my time to respond.

 

[Joe Law]

IMHO you should be finding out why the customers are doing the charge back. Is the charge showing on their credit card as a different business name than the name of the wash? Are they scammers that are using the wash and then realize they can get their money back? The person you should be angry at is the one doing the charge back, not the bank, the banks always have and always will side with the card holder because that's who pays the bills for them. If you can find out why it's happening then maybe you can put a stop to it.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Got one today from my C Store $5.11 reason stated i "Counterfeit."

Sent them a signed slip. Lotto and a drink. Do we really believe a counterfeiter would wast their time with this type of transaction?

 

[JGinther]

I just got one today again also. This one was different in that it said Duplicate processing error. I looked up the 8.00 charge, and it was one wash for $8.00, then another wash for $8.00 2 hours later. They just bought 2 car washes in different cars and forgot, but I just gave 2 free car washes, and paid 10.00 (chargeback fee) to spend half hour of my time looking this crap up. I used to think it wasn't worth my time like CFCW, but now I loose enough to pay for a new KIA! I almost would rather have that! I just wish in those circumstances that the customer would call us first.... But I guess... Why would they?

 

[2Biz]

"Or" the customer knows what he's doing to make it look like he was charged twice? So yea, why would they call you?!?! I'm not even considering CC for all the reasons I read about on here. Maybe someday I'll be forced into it. But for now, thanks for telling the Horror stories! It's a sanity check!