Road Film

[wash12]

In a touchless automatic currently running a PDQ 360, I have been fighting road film for awhile and was told lo presoak followed by hi presoak works best in most cases.

I have been playing around with a hi presoak followed by another hi presoak with a 15 sec dwell time and running it strong at 40 drops on titration test.

Still early to tell but seems to be getting the road film on the side of the car a little bit better, anyone else have this experience?

Also what are the disadvantages of going hi then hi versus lo then hi besides possibly worse drying due to being more alkaline car?

 

[soapy]

Low PH presoak generally works better on glass and chrome. Or so they say, I have used just high PH presoaks.

 

[Ontario Car Wash]

I had a white car come out with film on it today in certain spots pdq4000
so i stopped the car and put some straight presoak on the quarter panel of the car and rinsed after about 20 sec and it still didnt come off????????? With the tiniest bit of agitation with your finger it comes off then you have a nice shiny finger mark. So i washed my silver truck and it came out clean no film????????
Them chemical is titrating out strong 14+ph
did i miss something in class
i'll usually wipe my finger on a dirty spot of car when its loading to make sure it comes off

 

[chaz]

Get a good chemical rep. and good chemicals, I’ve recently gone with JBS.....the rep brought samples and spent several hours at my wash....I’m gettIng cleaner cars ....glass looks great!

 

[Jeff_L]

Not to state the obvious, but check your water softness.

 

[chaz]

Yeah....do check for soft water

 

[wash12]

Not to state the obvious, but check your water softness.

What does water softness have to do with road film? The car has the film before entering the wash the hard part is cutting into that road film on a touchless, you can rub your finger over the film and it comes off but without friction I find it hard to remove a film on a car.

 

[chaz]

Soft water results in better cleaning quality!
Better soap and correct titrations result in better cleaning. My top two washes use a two step (hi and low PH) soap. I was always happy with the touchelsss cleaning from my equipment....it’s been substantially better since switching to JBS. A touchless wash is not for cars that are not cleaned with some regularity!

 

[APW]

I've come to realize also that a touchfree is for people that keep their cars clean. I use top quality chemicals and check them weekly but still cannot get everything off of vehicles. It is frustrating for a car to go through your wash and be able to take your hand and wipe the car clean when the machine wouldn't get it off. Also, with everyone use to going to tunnels, I get people that don't understand touchfree and expect their car to be just as clean as the tunnel they have been going through.

 

[Greg Pack]

At a minimum your chemicals should be softened if your tap water exceeds 3 grains.

 

[Waxman]

I've come to realize also that a touchfree is for people that keep their cars clean. I use top quality chemicals and check them weekly but still cannot get everything off of vehicles. It is frustrating for a car to go through your wash and be able to take your hand and wipe the car clean when the machine wouldn't get it off. Also, with everyone use to going to tunnels, I get people that don't understand touchfree and expect their car to be just as clean as the tunnel they have been going through.

Many tunnels use prep at the entrance. I keep a self-serve prep bucket for customers to use if they like. I think you have to gauge quality by looking at several cars over a week or so. Many factors affect wash quality; seasonal differences in temps. affect the film left after a wash.

 

[carwashireland]

What does water softness have to do with road film? The car has the film before entering the wash the hard part is cutting into that road film on a touchless, you can rub your finger over the film and it comes off but without friction I find it hard to remove a film on a car.

Water softness has a big impact. Detergents are designed to act like a sperm that swim to the dirt (like an egg) then bury their head and lift the dirt ready for high pressure washing. Dirt is mainly minerals like iron, calcium, magnesium and hydrocarbons. Hard water contains Calcium, magnesium and sometimes iron so many of the sperms are used up by the hardness in the water. You can lose up to 50% of the detergent this way!

 

[carwashireland]

Even with great chemicals not all touchless car washes are equal! Compare the impact from a blast tech pro mozzle at 12 inches versus a v jet nozzle and you will see a big difference in impingement. I own inverted L washes and water wizards with the blast tech nozzles and the wizard cleans much better because of these nozzles!

 

[Greg Pack]

Even with great chemicals not all touchless car washes are equal! Compare the impact from a blast tech pro mozzle at 12 inches versus a v jet nozzle and you will see a big difference in impingement. I own inverted L washes and water wizards with the blast tech nozzles and the wizard cleans much better because of these nozzles!

I think it is indeed harder to clean with an inverted L.

 

[Ontario Car Wash]

Thats were im kinda at 99% come out great just the occasional white devil , but with i slight agitation comes right off. Just erks me to have that white car come out with a bit of film usually back 1/4 panels were exsahust hits
o well good luck
its snowing here $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[wash12]

Even with great chemicals not all touchless car washes are equal! Compare the impact from a blast tech pro mozzle at 12 inches versus a v jet nozzle and you will see a big difference in impingement. I own inverted L washes and water wizards with the blast tech nozzles and the wizard cleans much better because of these nozzles!

I agree with this, at one site we have a Futura SSA and it uses 0 degree nozzles and at the site with the cleaning problems is a brand new PDQ 360. Sucks a 20 year old machine cleans better than a few month old machine. The inverted L arch just doesn't have enough pressure hitting the car IMO I even switched nozzles out for the MEG to IMEG and basically no difference.

I am trying to think of any other type of nozzles to try out for harder impact, the V Jet nozzles are rated for under 400 PSI and I assume your inverted L wash is pushing 1000 psi so how are you getting away with using V Jet nozzles?

 

[wash12]

Water softness has a big impact. Detergents are designed to act like a sperm that swim to the dirt (like an egg) then bury their head and lift the dirt ready for high pressure washing. Dirt is mainly minerals like iron, calcium, magnesium and hydrocarbons. Hard water contains Calcium, magnesium and sometimes iron so many of the sperms are used up by the hardness in the water. You can lose up to 50% of the detergent this way!

So I am running about 50/50 soft water and RO water on all my chemical applications due to I don't have enough water flow from just my soft water so my machine pulls some RO water with it, I am trying to figure out how to fix this most likely need a booster pump.

My questions is should I see any lack of cleaning power with 50/50 RO and soft water, RO basically has nothing in it for the pre soak to grab onto so shouldn't this be as effective if not more effective then soft water?

 

[Greg Pack]

My questions is should I see any lack of cleaning power with 50/50 RO and soft water, RO basically has nothing in it for the pre soak to grab onto so shouldn't this be as effective if not more effective then soft water?

No, RO water should clean as well or better than soft water.

 

[carwashireland]

I agree with this, at one site we have a Futura SSA and it uses 0 degree nozzles and at the site with the cleaning problems is a brand new PDQ 360. Sucks a 20 year old machine cleans better than a few month old machine. The inverted L arch just doesn't have enough pressure hitting the car IMO I even switched nozzles out for the MEG to IMEG and basically no difference.

I am trying to think of any other type of nozzles to try out for harder impact, the V Jet nozzles are rated for under 400 PSI and I assume your inverted L wash is pushing 1000 psi so how are you getting away with using V Jet nozzles?

Good question. We actually use meg nozzles on our inverted L washes but have just switched to pmeg nozzles that are giving a bit more impingement. Also we have heated our presoak and added injectors for the chemicals. We are now getting the best clean possible imo with an inverted L. The heat made a big difference!

 

[carwashireland]

No, RO water should clean as well or better than soft water.

Greg is right as ever! It is a bit of an overkill using RO but it works. You only need to soften the water used for the chemicals though in my experience.