Is this normal sewer charges???

[Tim01]

My city water company uses the average of 3 winter months (Dec-Feb) water usage to calculate the sewer charges for the next 12 months. I live in the Denver metro area so during the winter I lose water to weep and usually the winter months are my busiest months. Using their formula, It causes my sewer “usage” to be more than my actual water usage. That of course is impossible.

Let’s use some numbers to make it more clear. Assume my winter water usages are 120k gals, 140k, and 100k from Dec-Feb for an average of 120k. That number is then multiplied by the rate per 1000 gals and let’s say it’s $4/1K making the monthly sewer charge of $480/month.

Using the above calculations, that’s assuming I’m using 1440K (120k * 12 months) going through the sewer. The problem is that my actual water usage during the 12 months is only 1000k and that’s including water for landscaping in the summer.

I’ve brought it up to the water company multiple times, but they said we calculate that once a year and we’ll use that number. How do I right this or it’s the norm? To me this is like paying for 15 gals of gas every time you pump 10 gals.

 

[Eric H]

You say "City Water Company", is this a private company that operates the Municipal water system for the city?
Are you speaking to the person that answers the phone when you call or have you spoken with someone with more authority? I'd recommend speaking with the Water and Sewer Commissioner, your Ward councilor, or Mayor (or city manager depending on your local government structure).
You need to speak to someone with the authority to make the change or advise you on the process to make the changes. Be sure to kiss everyone's ass the entire time! If you go in with an aggressive attitude most city employees will shut you down.

 

[br549ms]

Wow, if they use those numbers and will not deviate, then find a way to make it work for you. storage tanks / reclaim ... smaller nozzles / injectors. Use the reject water from the R/O.

 

[boywonder]

Every municipality is different. Our municipality charges per water used. So if you used 1000 gallons, you are charged 1000 gallons of sewer. We all know that we don't send all our water back down the sewer due to drive off, evaporation, etc. I do find this to be the best, honest way of dealing with the water service, unless you can put a meter on the sewer.

 

[br549ms]

Nothing dishonest about lowering water bill based on how you are being charged. Get conservative with usage during the months you are using the most water. There are local municipalities that have permitted rain catch basins for washes and not adjusted water sewage for them.

Every municipality is different. Our municipality charges per water used. So if you used 1000 gallons, you are charged 1000 gallons of sewer. We all know that we don't send all our water back down the sewer due to drive off, evaporation, etc. I do find this to be the best, honest way of dealing with the water service, unless you can put a meter on the sewer.

A meter on the sewer does no good if they are basing the year on your three highest usage months, that is dishonest. You could sue, go to City hall, call you local elected officials, all of which are not very good options.

 

[boywonder]

I was not implying that you use a sewer meter to base your yearly usage on 3 months use. I was implying that you get charged for what you actually use per month. If it is a local municipality your state should have a municipality utilites board. If it is a private company there should be a regular utilities board. Whichever one it is talk with them and file a complaint. In my experience if you tell the utility that you have talked with the utility board, and/or filed a complaint, they will be a little more receptive to listening to your concerns, and coming to a compromise.

 

[Tim01]

I first spoke with someone on the phone and then went to the office to speak with the front desk rep. They talked to some supervisor and told me that’s how it’s done. I think they only looked at that $480/mo charge and don’t understand that it’s an overcharge if used throughout the year.

My chemical guy also owns a car wash in the same city and I’ve asked him at least 5 times if he gets overcharged or not. He never responds as if it’s trade secret or his business is too slow to even be bothered by it. I’d like to know if I’m the only one get screwed. Another operator nearby never got back to me about it too. I’d be happy if they charge me based on actual water usage regardless if it goes down the sewer or not.

I’ve tried methanol based chemicals, but it was a huge hassle to swap tips. I don’t have a reclaim system and will need to weigh savings vs costs to install one. Haven’t reduce nozzle size (using 2506) but I do replace them every 6 months.

Eric H: you’re right. I need to talk to someone with even higher authority.

 

[soapy]

I currently pay 3X my water bill for sewer service. That is how they do it each month. I once had a location in a different town that looked back 10 years to find the highest month on record for water. It was 1 million gallons due to the fact they had not read the meter in 6 months during my busiest season so it was a make up for their lazyness. They decide to bill me a monthly sewer charge of $900 per month for sewer even if I only used 1 gallon of water. I never could reason with them and ended up selling that location.

 

[Tim01]

I currently pay 3X my water bill for sewer service. That is how they do it each month.

That is outrageous, but at least you know it's consistent and based off of actual usage. Here my numbers are for potential usage. Luckily I'm still making money.

 

[MEP001]

You might considered a propylene glycol blowdown system instead of a weep. It sounds like it will save you a ton on your bill since it will almost eliminate water use outside of your customers washing. You could also recover your RO reject and weep with that (Won't help if you're already recovering your RO reject) or weep with gray water (Probably not a good idea but it's an option I've seen done).

 

[MEP001]

That is outrageous, but at least you know it's consistent and based off of actual usage. Here my numbers are for potential usage. Luckily I'm still making money.

My wastewater charge is 5x water usage, almost $1000 a month for total water/wastewater.

 

[Tim01]

You might considered a propylene glycol blowdown system instead of a weep. It sounds like it will save you a ton on your bill since it will almost eliminate water use outside of your customers washing. You could also recover your RO reject and weep with that (Won't help if you're already recovering your RO reject) or weep with gray water (Probably not a good idea but it's an option I've seen done).

Is there a blowdown system that I can purchase to use the propylene glycol? How does this work?

Yep I'm reusing my RO reject already.

 

[Randy]

Is there a blowdown system that I can purchase to use the propylene glycol? How does this work?

Yep I'm reusing my RO reject already.

Take a look at this one. http://polarfreezeguard.com/Home_Page.html How much does your total water/sewer bill run a month? What of car wash are you running?

 

[Alpine Dreams]

My wastewater charge is 5x water usage, almost $1000 a month for total water/wastewater.

This makes my recent $3000 bill for a new water well pump seem inexpensive, especially when the last pump lasted 7 years.

 

[Tim01]

Take a look at this one. http://polarfreezeguard.com/Home_Page.html How much does your total water/sewer bill run a month? What of car wash are you running?

Thanks Randy! I'll definitely look into this for next year.

 

[br549ms]

I have to admit my sewer rates are not that bad, we pay 2-3x. However water rates are high when compared to other areas., so sewer rates can be misleading. Total in / out is around 1.10 per 100 gallons.
Given that sewer rates are so high, have any of you considered trying zero discharge?

 

[Earl Weiss]

Many times there are "Public Comment " times at bard meetings. You may want to try and make your point there. You may also want to send a letter to the head of the water board, the Mayor and anyone else who sees this. I sent a letter to the Chicago water commissioner with copy to the Mayor about an issue (Not rates) and got a call from the water department saying they were working on the problem.

 

[boywonder]

If you go to a board/city council meeting be well educated, polite, and if you need to write out what you want to say ahead of time. I spoke last year multiple times at city council meetings. A week after one meeting the Mayor was in my office, and called what I said at the meeting "slanderous". Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Now every week on the city council agenda it actually says "The Mayor and City Council welcome comments from the public; however, at no time is it appropriate to use profane, obscene, or slanderous language." I just have to chuckle.

 

[Alpine Dreams]

If you go to a board/city council meeting be well educated, polite, and if you need to write out what you want to say ahead of time. I spoke last year multiple times at city council meetings. A week after one meeting the Mayor was in my office, and called what I said at the meeting "slanderous". Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Now every week on the city council agenda it actually says "The Mayor and City Council welcome comments from the public; however, at no time is it appropriate to use profane, obscene, or slanderous language." I just have to chuckle.

I would love to read an excerpt, or the whole transcript, of what you said that they considered slanderous. This sounds juicy af.

 

[boywonder]

The battle that myself and my neighbors found ourselves in against the city was contentious. Basically the newspaper wrote an article, didn't mention any sources of their information and ended up blaming me cause I didn't want to sell my property, and only a few knew the information, and they were trying to defame, or slander my business and reputation. The mayor did tell me that, that morning he did not read the paper and he didn't know what actually happened. The writer of the article does not work for the paper anymore, but still will not give up his source. If you read the actual minutes of the meeting it is either in there that I disagreed with something, or that I didn't even get up and say anything. It should still be on video. To this day the current council does not like to see me in the audience, most of them give me the stinkeye when I walk in. But were off the thread topic.