Does it matter if I connect the commons together on the left side or the right side of the terminal? Does the wire need to be ran to the same side of each terminal? For instance the left side of terminal 1 to the left side of terminal 2 and on down the line or can I tie them together from anywhere as long as it block 2 or 3?
Help wiring a LP panel
- Thread starter Noob
- Start date
Do you have and know how to use an ohm meter? It was stated by CB80 and Mep that terminals 2 and 3 are your commons connected in the middle by a jumper. It's easy to see the jumper in the photo. An ohm meter would verify that for you. So the logic is, you can attach a jumper wire from each bay common using any # 2 or 3 terminal on either side of the strip.
cantbreak80
Maybe I need new clubs
I know why many manufacturers use multiple transformers…inventory management.
But 75VA per bay is pushing the limits for a modern car wash with digital display timers, credit card and bill acceptors, and programmable logic controllers.
I also know that most do a good job of ensuring their electrical panels are properly wired (and phased). But I never assume that is the case…
at least, not anymore.
Most of the Q&A on this thread would be moot if the original equipment manufacturer had just installed a single 500VA transformer. And Noob’s new panel would have likely been up and running some time ago.
But 75VA per bay is pushing the limits for a modern car wash with digital display timers, credit card and bill acceptors, and programmable logic controllers.
I also know that most do a good job of ensuring their electrical panels are properly wired (and phased). But I never assume that is the case…
at least, not anymore.
Most of the Q&A on this thread would be moot if the original equipment manufacturer had just installed a single 500VA transformer. And Noob’s new panel would have likely been up and running some time ago.
MEP001
Well-known member
FWIW I don't like the single transformer setup. They do seem to last a really long time, but when it fails your whole wash is down, they're not something the average owner/operator keeps on hand, and no one local will have a replacement.
Really comes down to what separate's the men from the boys....Every owner should strive to have a replacement for everything that can fail at the CW to minimize down time....I would have gladly paid the price for a single 500va transformer to set on the shelf for insurance! Sure would have made wiring new equipment a lot easier. Once its on the shelf, you'll most likely never need it! The biggest thing is to ONLY load a Transformer to about 75% capacity....It should last forever! I have some original 75va Transformer's that are about 40 years old and still in service. I have added some load over the years, but also put all bay coin box heaters on a separate 100va transformer. There's more to it than just blindly adding more stuff!
mjwalsh
6 bay SS w/laundromat
Not sure on the quality of some ... but it appears like some $$$ could be saved by going to a larger 24VAC transformer based on the below link & probably some other links. Its seems to be better to oversize than undersize ... that way an operator can add heaters to keep the moisture inside the coin boxes down ... which we try to do during the wintertime here in North Dakota. Undersize the fuse protecting it 
of course!
Dayton 31EJ03 $254.57 Control Transformer, 750VA, 12/24VAC | Zoro.com
Possibly adding lots of din rail mounted led indicating fuses (quick latch non touch) might be worthwhile on the low voltage side of the humongous transformer similar to those below:
We are now in the process of using similar din mounted fuse holders with their quick disconnect latches in our PLC driven dog wash. Later on I plan on doing a full scale investigation with my Fluke 325 non contact clamp on amp meter when maximum amps are happening & fine tune the amperage of the fuses to give more protection against frying components or sections of components ... time will tell ...
Oh no no no
... some in the deep state & the cancel culture media might not like "full scale investigations"
of course!Dayton 31EJ03 $254.57 Control Transformer, 750VA, 12/24VAC | Zoro.com
Possibly adding lots of din rail mounted led indicating fuses (quick latch non touch) might be worthwhile on the low voltage side of the humongous transformer similar to those below:
Allen-Bradley 1492H PLC for sale online | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Allen-Bradley 1492H PLC at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
We are now in the process of using similar din mounted fuse holders with their quick disconnect latches in our PLC driven dog wash. Later on I plan on doing a full scale investigation with my Fluke 325 non contact clamp on amp meter when maximum amps are happening & fine tune the amperage of the fuses to give more protection against frying components or sections of components ... time will tell ...
Oh no no no
... some in the deep state & the cancel culture media might not like "full scale investigations"I had the antiquated thermo-disks in each coin box that turned the heat pads on or mostly not on! They were very problematic....Plus I had added so much more load to the 75va transformers I decided to install a dedicated system that only handles the coin box heaters. The system is energized by a very inexpensive electronic thermostat (Thanks CB80!) and is protected by (4) 1a din rail circuit breakers. With a 100va transformer, I would be at about 80% capacity with 20w heat pads. So I added (2) cycle timers (on the right) and wired them in a way so only (2) bays are energized at a time 10 minutes on 10 minutes off. That part was easy by wiring the outputs so 2 bays were on the NO contact of the first cycle timer, and 2 bays on the NC contact of the second cycle timer. That way when both cycle timers are powered from the T-stat, they cycle back and forth every 10 minutes and the transformer only see's a 40w load. It works good at this setting keeping the coin boxes free of ice.
MEP001
Well-known member
I wanted to try those, but do they trip at 1A regardless of voltage? This one has a voltage rating, don't know if that's just a max voltage or a required voltage.
The ones I used are CHINT NB1-B1-1P from FactoryMation.com but see they are no longer available. They are rated at 277vac. I read an article that stated:
Whatever amp rating is on your breaker will hold true up to its voltage limit of the breaker. It is sensing only AC current, not the line voltage, and it does not care what the AC source is at long as it does not exceed the VAC limit of the breaker.
It also went on to state that voltages as low as (1v) may not conduct through the breaker, but line voltages of 24vac should be ok. I remember testing the breakers with 24vac and striking the output wire to ground for a split second. It tripped the breaker like it should. Plus I also have the transformer fused. I would think the 1a breaker you linked to would work fine for this application.
Whatever amp rating is on your breaker will hold true up to its voltage limit of the breaker. It is sensing only AC current, not the line voltage, and it does not care what the AC source is at long as it does not exceed the VAC limit of the breaker.
It also went on to state that voltages as low as (1v) may not conduct through the breaker, but line voltages of 24vac should be ok. I remember testing the breakers with 24vac and striking the output wire to ground for a split second. It tripped the breaker like it should. Plus I also have the transformer fused. I would think the 1a breaker you linked to would work fine for this application.
MEP001
Well-known member
mjwalsh
6 bay SS w/laundromat
I am thinking there are some advantages to the Allen Bradley fuse quick disconnects or similar that I linked to. Mainly space required & easier to change to a possibly helpful more fine tuned amp protection via those small glass fuses. I am thinking in our dog wash I might be able to go down from 4 amp to 3.15 amp.
To protect the controls on our very special yet safe ... 1000 G-Force laundromat spinners ... we are successfully using the automation direct circuit din rail breakers. 2Biz is right about the din rail breakers rating likely being the maximum.
Automotive fuses & automotive fuse holders tend to be only up to 30V when it comes to fuses. I needed to do a bypass within a fuse box a week ago on my older residential where I live & I learned the hard way seeing that an inline automotive fuse holder improperly used on 110VAC actually ... surprise ... surprise ... eventually melted ... ugh! It did not create a hazard as the fuse also blew. I replaced it with an inline fuse holder rated for 250VAC.
To protect the controls on our very special yet safe ... 1000 G-Force laundromat spinners ... we are successfully using the automation direct circuit din rail breakers. 2Biz is right about the din rail breakers rating likely being the maximum.
Automotive fuses & automotive fuse holders tend to be only up to 30V when it comes to fuses. I needed to do a bypass within a fuse box a week ago on my older residential where I live & I learned the hard way seeing that an inline automotive fuse holder improperly used on 110VAC actually ... surprise ... surprise ... eventually melted ... ugh! It did not create a hazard as the fuse also blew. I replaced it with an inline fuse holder rated for 250VAC.
UtahYoutubeGuy
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Noob, MEP, and Old Town
Thank you for this thread I was just about to fire up my whole system this evening but it looks like I better consider the phasing before I do so. I am hooking up a used Southern Pride triple foam to my CP pump stand it seems to be very similiar to what you did. How did the project turn out?
My pump stand is just a little different because I have the 4 transformers for each bay plus a "System Transformer" I pulled power off the system transformer. Is there anything I should consider differently with my setup?
Thank you for this thread I was just about to fire up my whole system this evening but it looks like I better consider the phasing before I do so. I am hooking up a used Southern Pride triple foam to my CP pump stand it seems to be very similiar to what you did. How did the project turn out?
My pump stand is just a little different because I have the 4 transformers for each bay plus a "System Transformer" I pulled power off the system transformer. Is there anything I should consider differently with my setup?