Have any of you ever used one? I did a search here and found a link, but didn’t see any feedback on them. My pressure tank is too small. I need a bigger one to prevent such rapid on off cycling of the well pump. I guess with a CSV you can use a small tank, so you save room in the ER and extend the life of the pump. Pressure tanks are expensive too! Just curious to hear your thoughts. Thank you
Cycle Stop Valve
- Thread starter Bricks
- Start date
MEP001
Well-known member
Sounds like a great idea for a home, but I don't know about a car wash or any commercial application.
I would recommend a pump operated by a pressure transducer and variable frequency drive. I've seen this at several washes. It's expensive, but you have reduced electric use because the pump only runs at the speed needed to keep up with demand. Is your current pump big enough to keep up?
I would recommend a pump operated by a pressure transducer and variable frequency drive. I've seen this at several washes. It's expensive, but you have reduced electric use because the pump only runs at the speed needed to keep up with demand. Is your current pump big enough to keep up?
Expensive is the last thing I need right now. If it’ll pay for itself in little time, that’s another story. I think the pump is very good. It fills the pressure tank in very few seconds.
MEP001
Well-known member
I don't know anything about the reliability of the cycle stop valve, but if it proves to be an added maintenance issue it certainly won't do you any good, and it's pretty expensive. A bigger tank would be less expensive and will cut back on the motor cycling.
I just ordered one for around $230 so I’ll be sure to post a review. MEP with all due respect, I don’t think bigger tanks are anywhere near that cheap. I think a 125 gallon pressure tank is around $700, and the amount of water they store is around 30 percent of that 125 gallons. That old Futura really likes water lol.
MEP001
Well-known member
When I first looked into those valves, they were $500 and up. And I figured you might be going up to a 30 or 50 gallon tank, not as big as 125. Hopefully the valve will prove to be reliable.
The VFD pump can be $2500 or more, but there are several advantages. One is space savings because it only needs a 2 or 3 gallon tank. Another is that even though it uses a 3-phase motor, if you don't have 3-phase you can get it in a single-phase voltage with a VFD that converts its motor output to 3-phase. All the wear issues of the motor starting many times an hour to fill a tank are gone since the motor only runs at the speed needed to maintain pressure, where the CSV causes the pump to run at full speed the entire time there is any water use. You might want to keep an eye on your electric bill.
Money is too tight to afford that setup. I’ll see how this goes. Maybe I can save up for the proper equipment. As always, I really appreciate the information the good people of this forum provide. Thank you
I’m not sure we’re on the same page. The storage tank that feeds the cat3535 (by gravity) has well water controlled by a float, like a commode. There’s also an electric float that opens a valve to allow county water in the same tank, (if the well would fail)
Everything is fine with that tank.
The problem is that the float doesn’t allow enough water from the well to operate at the submersible pump’s capacity, therefore the pressure tank that works in conjunction with a pressure switch to operate the submersible pump, fills quickly. This causes the submersible to turn on and off many times during the course of one touchless wash. A CSV should only run one cycle per wash…if it’s as advertised. This should extend the pump life and reduce electric consumption by eliminating the power required to get that motor turning the pump.
Think how the lights dim at home when the AC kicks on, or the air compressor.
Tom Thumb
Active member
are you really saving money on using well water as primary and county as backup, I believe I would look at using county as primary and well as backup, and I may not really be understanding the problem?
mjwalsh
6 bay SS w/laundromat
Not the question asked by Bricks ... but I am curious to know how his & others sewer costs are? My local city has double of the water cost for sewage added to the total bill. Maybe it is their way of anticipating some facilities ... bypassing city water usage.
Tom Thumb
Active member
Sorry I forgot about sewage cost.
Toms PTcarwash
Active member
If you have the space, and your sewer bill is determined by your water bill, I would maximize the well water usage IF its good water. Add bigger and /or extra expansion tanks and maybe a larger or second feed valve to your auto wash storage tank. If you do the math with the expansion tanks, and space is a premium, you should be able to eliminate the auto wash storage tank with sufficient expansion tanks and pump capacity.
The CSV is working as advertised as far as the pump not cycling 15 times per wash. However, the water is hard and has a lot of iron orange color. Am I wrong to use this in the auto? The hot presoak uses the softened county water, and then the SFR is also county water. So wouldn’t the SFR rinse all of the hard well water off? The $6 basic wash wouldn’t have the SFR. The other three do.
Toms PTcarwash
Active member
My day job is mechanical engineer, i bought my wash about 18 years ago as part of my retirement plan.
I am by no means a water expert, but I can say if your water is very hard and iron rich, you really should soften it and have iron reduction. What you need will be determined by the actual properties of the water. Depending on the treatment needed, it may be cheaper just to use the city water.
I personally wouldn't use the "bad " water for the rinse. The spot free may take most of it off, but never all. Then you have to take into consideration, what that well water is doing to your pumps, pipes and nozzles. It takes some time but hard and iron rich water causes build ups and problems. When you consider everything, you may financially be better off not using the well.
I am by no means a water expert, but I can say if your water is very hard and iron rich, you really should soften it and have iron reduction. What you need will be determined by the actual properties of the water. Depending on the treatment needed, it may be cheaper just to use the city water.
I personally wouldn't use the "bad " water for the rinse. The spot free may take most of it off, but never all. Then you have to take into consideration, what that well water is doing to your pumps, pipes and nozzles. It takes some time but hard and iron rich water causes build ups and problems. When you consider everything, you may financially be better off not using the well.
You could be right. I appreciate the advice. My house was built in 2001. It has unsoftened well water and I am still using the same water heater, pressure tank and all pipes. Even the same dishwasher. I can take pictures of them for non believers. Sure sometimes the shower heads need soaked in white vinegar to clean them out, but it’s not bad. The submersible pump went out last year so that’s pretty good (19 years at 180’ depth).
I don’t know what is put in the other water, maybe chlorine and fluoride, then it goes through a softener that uses salt. And I’ve often wondered if the well water is hard on the cat pump. It could be. The water at home is not orange so I might be foolish to make any comparisons at all. After reading about people using recycled water that stinks, I thought it would be OK. The only thing I checked was TDS and they were both over 300.
