Bank refuses to order dollar coins

[Micah Savell]

Thought some of you might find this interesting. Yesterday I was informed that BB&T would no longer order or stock the $1 coins. ]

 

[Kirb]

Talk to other banks in your area. I am sure they would love your business.

 

[mjwalsh]

More serious than we think --- there is a need!

Thought some of you might find this interesting. Yesterday I was informed that BB&T would no longer order or stock the $1 coins. ]

Micah, Kirb & other coin people,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BB&T

It would be nice if Kirb was right but I am afraid the current situation is way worse than we think. Since the executive order from the administration said no more President Coins & Sacagaweas except through the "boutique store format" of the US Mint Website --- the situation is way more serious than we think. Don't believe me --- go the US Mint site yourself &/or better yet call them --- & see about the new $12.50 per $250 box charge. Does 5% "at their mercy" charge sound like a livelihood & jobs enhancing plan?

It seems like the same people who caused the failure of the coins by giving out as many as 95% Susan Bs & pathetic advertising want to use every trick in the book to make it look like their lie of "Almost everyone hates the Gold Colored coins" is true. That way they think they can keep pointing to the continuously "wastefully" stored coins. Those of us who have been giving out the dollar coins from our ChangeMakers since the year 2000 know how blatant that "LIE" is --- especially considering the reality of inflation!!!

It is absolutely imperative for a huge percentage of us & others that the one dollar paper bill is transitioned out of circulation such as Canada did as per --- a current bill introduced by Representative David Schweikert & now with many bipartison co-sponsers. Canada saved over 10 times compared to their initial study based on accurate information from the dollar coin alliance. http://dollarcoinalliance.org/

Since a significant percentage of the dollar coin opponents are for "getting rid of as much cash as possible" I see the next step --- if left up to the banks & the federal reserve --- all forms of cash will be unjustly made to be more expensive for the USA public to use!

mike walsh king koin of bismarck

 

[Whale of a Wash]

So we have large warehouses of dollar coins, and don't want to distribute them.
The Dollar coin is only available at my bank if i want a couple of rolls. I like my $1 Tokens really well at the wash, but todays kids have less and less cash, so credit cards readers or atms will be the future at the wash, if we want to keep our business.

 

[mjwalsh]

So we have large warehouses of dollar coins, and don't want to distribute them.
The Dollar coin is only available at my bank if i want a couple of rolls. I like my $1 Tokens really well at the wash, but todays kids have less and less cash, so credit cards readers or atms will be the future at the wash, if we want to keep our business.

John & others,

Note 30-50% in the below article are choosing to opt out of credit card. In the case of laundromats the best available information shows that 95% of them are coin only.

http://www.strategicsourceror.com/2011/07/us-treasury-manufacturing-less-cash-as.html

My point is that that the bipartison GAO study clearly factored in the gradual decrease in cash usage. The amount that replacing the deflated one dollar bills with dollar coins that has been proven it will help reduce the deficit --- & will clearly mean --- that much less that the government will be trying make up somewhere else in goofy taxes at whatever level. If the locals can't get federal matching etc because of the reality of the money being used to just pay interest --- there is no question that it will get to the local level. Do they irresponsibly neglect infrastructure or shift it onto the next generation? Decision makers need to act as responsibly as possible.

The coin or like in your case --- tokens are a much better fit for smaller transactions such as --- at the one dollar level! Another thing --- the idea that one dollar bills working better long term wise in our wet car wash environment than the best multi acceptance coin mechs IS SIMPLY NOT ACCURATE & defies our north dakota common sense. Wet, dirty & even sweaty bills simply do not work as well as coins even with the best & most current bill acceptors such our Mars 2612s & the water resistant Coinco Vantages. Based on most of our hands on experience coin mechs are a better fit at the one dollar smaller transaction level. Maybe someone somewhere else has had a different experience but based on our experience the coin approach is the better choice. If the coins are not properly available ---- it is not good for our country as a whole.

It is somewhat mute now but --- but do you think that paper tokens would have been a better choice over your dollar tokens & then you would dispense those paper tokens out with a bill dispenser instead of Change Machines like I am sure you must be doing now? I know our Cummins 2000 coin sorter counter makes the part of separating coins other than quarters a non issue.

mike walsh king koin of bismarck

 

[Earl Weiss]

John & others,

I know our Cummins 2000 coin sorter counter makes the part of separating coins other than quarters a non issue.

mike walsh king koin of bismarck

I saw one on e-bay used for $650.00. How much new?

 

[MEP001]

The amount that replacing the deflated one dollar bills with dollar coins that has been proven it will help reduce the deficit

Is the paper dollar bill more deflated in value than the dollar coin somehow?

 

[mjwalsh]

I saw one on e-bay used for $650.00. How much new?

Earl,

It seems like the $650 was or is a great buy on Ebay considering how sturdy the unit is made. It is light years ahead in both speed & maintenance wise compared to our previous 2 "used hand me down" older Brandts.

We got our Cummins brand new back in Nov of 2002. I am pretty sure we paid right around $4K for it. Keep in mind we bought it locally from one of our better customers who had just gotten the new job with that company who approached us. The price tag included the fancy cabinet & complete install & set up by them. It also included them setting up serial communications for us so we do not have to type in the subtotals & totals etc --- to have it in our categorized database it just follows in the order filling the fields as we go from one category to the next. The bag totals ability is really nice for bank deposit preparation & for filling our 2 Standard Changemakers in a more precise way. The Standard 600EFs also have serial communications so you hopefully have a sense as to how it facilitates the workflow!

I can honestly say that in the nine years we have not had a single needed service call even though the service department was available locally for us. A few fairly easy in house correctable bent coin removals have been a pretty rare occurrence.

Kevin Reilly has a Cummins 2000 that he really likes too! This model 2000 size is smaller & slower than our bank's Cummins but still 6 times faster than our 2 old Brandts. I notice that the coin processing is easier for the tellers than the dollar bill counting.

We look forward to the day when we bring in one fourth as many coins weighing about a third of our present weight & about one third the volume for equivalent dollar totals. We have already committed on 27 more of our washing machines for the dollar upgrade so hopefully we will have made the complete transition within six months. That will make it so we can quit giving out any where near as many quarters from our changers.

MikeW

 

[mjwalsh]

Is the paper dollar bill more deflated in value than the dollar coin somehow?

Miles,

Nobody said that the dollar coin is not also deflated. The dollar coin certainly makes more sense from our perspective than just using the also deflated "quarter" It is pretty pathetic to see distributors setting up new self service operators with "quarters only" on their coin drop portion from our perspective. As far as the paper bills --- as I said before --- in 1973 by the Federal Reserve's own inflation index a $5 bill is worth the same as a $1 bill is now. So in other words back in 1973 a bill acceptor accepting a one back then was worth one dollar --- but now is a bit like accepting a 20 cent fractional paper note. Back in 1973 the one dollar paper note was worth its extra long term cost. Now the coin that is less costly long term wise makes the most sense but it needs to actually replace the "equivalent in value" paper note. If it is not replaced the banks will not need to stock & distribute the unmixed dollar coin --- & they have proven that they won't --- even if it is clearly in the best interest of the USA.

Are you saying that it does not make sense for the coinage & paper notes to be adjusted for inflation? This is a proper function of what a government should do! The truth is that inflation in many third world countries including the one where I assisted with missionary work --- inflation was one of the destabilizing factors that drove many into horrific poverty --- that did not have to happen.

You & some others seem to think that giving the banks as a group total free rein credit card wise is the absolute best way to go --- even though we as individual operators & as a group of operators really don't have that good of a lever to keep those fees & rates within a proper range.

http://www.merchantaccountguide.com/merchant-account-news/7-11-credit-card-fees-petition.php

The GAO study really should be read thoroughly & comprehensively & noticed how much more credible it is than the other clearly inferior studies that are being used a tool for "bullying" tactics such as what Micah shed light on: --- specifically the $150 billion dollar bank conglomerate refusal to order the dollar coins. Remember they are not refusing to order quarters or dollar bills --- do think that is giving the dollar coins fair chance? Depending on if Micah is in pretty deep with this specific bank --- it really is not that easy to jump from bank to bank like Kirb suggests.

mike walsh king koin of bismarck

 

[Micah Savell]

Thanks to all for some very valid input and thoughts. For the time being I am going to move many accounts to new banks but it not easy because I need to move my credit cards as well.
Thanks again.

 

[mjwalsh]

Keep the temporary discomfort to a minimum

Thanks to all for some very valid input and thoughts. For the time being I am going to move many accounts to new banks but it not easy because I need to move my credit cards as well.
Thanks again.

Micah,

I certainly would not be in any rush to remove my accounts & credit cards from that mega bank --- for the simple reason we do not know if the new bank will "double cross" you going on that same dysfunctional bandwagon as BB & T Bank network did --- down the road.

Hopefully, you have enough in reserve --- a position of strength if you will ---& put a substantial amount in a single account in a more sensible bank. That is a relatively easy process. Ask them before hand what their policy is towards ordering mixed dollar coins so you at least prevent your initial time from being wasted.

I said mixed coins because the present administration used a somewhat dubious executive order to discontinue the President & Native American Coins. Except for "boutique shop" format ordering direct from the Mint at the 5% charge for shipping --- that way they get the full 300% plus markup from the original cost! I bet John from Whale a Wash & Kevin Reilly do not even get that kind of markup on their in house tokens!

Let us know how drastic the Susan B coin count is because that is one of the issues that Rep Dave Schweikert & his 11 bipartison co-sponser's bill clearly addresses.

mike walsh king koin of bismarck

 

[Earl Weiss]

We got our Cummins brand new back in Nov of 2002. I am pretty sure we paid right around $4K for it.

Another reason IO do not want to use dollar coins (or tokens and coins for that matter.) Don't want to buy a sorter. Don't want to use a sorter.

Time is the most precious commodity.

With the proliferation / development of smart phones / wallets any cash acceptance in bays may be moot in 5 years.

 

[mjwalsh]

Another reason IO do not want to use dollar coins (or tokens and coins for that matter.) Don't want to buy a sorter. Don't want to use a sorter.

Time is the most precious commodity.

With the proliferation / development of smart phones / wallets any cash acceptance in bays may be moot in 5 years.

Earl,

We have some common ground --- except that we on this side of the issue more dislike sorting & counting disproportionate numbers of quarters & one dollar bills compared to $5s & $10s & $20s It is pretty clear that dollar coins win the debate with the more healthy coin process!

Dollar coins do not have to be counted --- they can be weighed accurately enough within seconds. Extremely quick manual no expense sorting with a homemade device is easily done & has been demonstrated.

As far as all cash becoming moot for our self service operations in five years --- go for it! Good luck with a variety of "at their mercy" very short term firmware updates etc for their overly proprietary devices. In the case of phone transactions --- good luck with the paypalish level of fee-ishness!

MICAH & others who are concerned,

It would be helpful to include a little statement of support in some of our advertising that we tend to run anyway across the USA --- especially in the higher population areas where it could reach more people.

Note on the following ad that we have already committed with a clear statement of support & why. It will be on a preferred Fargo-Moorhead Map including Teddy Roosevelt Park Medora Map. The ad or something similar will also be in other publications.

http://s26.photobucket.com/albums/c138/mjwalsh/

mike walsh king koin of bismarck

 

[Earl Weiss]

Earl,

We have some common ground --- except that we on this side of the issue more dislike sorting & counting disproportionate numbers of quarters & one dollar bills compared to $5s & $10s & $20s It is pretty clear that dollar coins win the debate with the more healthy coin process!

Dollar coins do not have to be counted --- they can be weighed accurately enough within seconds. Extremely quick manual no expense sorting with a homemade device is easily done & has been demonstrated.

As far as all cash becoming moot for our self service operations in five years --- go for it!

I rarely count quarters. They are simply recycled, put back in the changers. On occasion, I bundle $100.00 for my tunnel cashiers. Long ago I stopped counting them. Got an inexpensive scale from Harbor freight. Works great.


So the issue of counting quarters vs dollars and sorting is not an issue. I don't do it

With regard to electronic payment options fees etc. I think we'll agree, time will tell. A have no sympathy for most merchants who complain about credit card fees because they are mostly a lot better off margin wize vs those of us who retail gasoline.

 

[mjwalsh]

Proper support & a firmness is needed!

Quote

MICAH & others who are concerned,

It would be helpful to include a little statement of support in some of our advertising that we tend to run anyway across the USA --- especially in the higher population areas where it could reach more people.

Note on the following ad that we have already committed with a clear statement of support & why. It will be on a preferred Fargo-Moorhead Map including a Teddy Roosevelt Park Medora Map & of our main highway system in North Dakota. The ad or something similar will also be in other publications.

http://s26.photobucket.com/albums/c138/mjwalsh/

Quote --- yours truly

The national debt has increased to over 15 trillion --- in the last 3 years another over 4 trillion has been added! The better studies should always be the ones that carry the day!

The correct antidote is to support --- where ever we can --- the following bipartison brand new bill in the senate approach:

http://dollarcoinalliance.org/2012/...1-coin-transition-to-reduce-government-waste/

mike walsh king koin of bismarck

 

[Whale of a Wash]

Mike, how much are you spending on advertising for the dollar coin and why? Does your equipment take the dollar coin and not quarters at the laundromat.
That cummins coin sorter doeslooks amazing. I just separate quarters and tokens with a screen , like panning for gold, that vanbrook tokens hooked me up with. Then just weigh the quarters or tokens with a direct dollar readout on salter scales. I don't think it's the gov't wanting electronic transactions as much as the people are. The people are all carrying smartphones that can do a 1000 things, and paying for things electronically is going to be another thing for them to do. I don't think people want to carry heavy coins or dirty paper money, they just want to buy things.

 

[mjwalsh]

Mike, how much are you spending on advertising for the dollar coin and why? Does your equipment take the dollar coin and not quarters at the laundromat.
That cummins coin sorter doeslooks amazing. I just separate quarters and tokens with a screen , like panning for gold, that vanbrook tokens hooked me up with. Then just weigh the quarters or tokens with a direct dollar readout on salter scales. I don't think it's the gov't wanting electronic transactions as much as the people are. The people are all carrying smartphones that can do a 1000 things, and paying for things electronically is going to be another thing for them to do. I don't think people want to carry heavy coins or dirty paper money, they just want to buy things.

.

Thanks John,

I agree with most of all of the above including the part about not spending too much of one's personal resources on shedding light on what is involved or on the mindless gross receipt tax approach on services. I don't agree with the "heavy" part because Canada has not had even close to that way overblown "heavy" experience. If anything they have experienced about one third the weight when it comes to anything where a coin mech is a better fit!

I see where the fancy computer interfaced counter is probably not the best fit for you & many others. Besides --- precise scales come with serial communications that can be used with the same TalTech intermediary software --- I am not sure about their cost though.

The independent nonpartison GAO study that actually did have the proper methodology --- estimated high for more electronic transactions happening.

Among other concerns about accelerating "just electronic" by making cash in general unwarrantedly more expensive is the reality of the growing Identity Theft situation. Even the phone "simple trigger less hardware" approach is not as simple as it appears at first glance. Again like I wrote to Earl above "Good Luck" (multiple reasons) when there is too much "just electronic". See below link:

http://www.idtheftcenter.org/

We have already committed to being a 100% dollar coin with quarters as an option (where a smaller increment makes sense) on all of our equipment. Can you imagine even a Walmart executive at one location having to deal with over 100 card swipes? That is what would be needed in a large percentage of laundromats? Over 95% of all laundromats are coin operated --- so you can see where for some sectors of the economy --- including some of us --- where the dollar coins are actually by far the best fit.

I was wrong in my previous post about the over 300% markup that the U.S. Treasury has to work with --- it is actually over 500% markup considering the correct figure for making the dollar coin is 18 cents.

mike walsh king koin of bismarck

 

[DavidM]

I called the US Mint yesterday to find out what they are saying. The website does not offer to sell anything but single rolls of golden dollars (at a significant mark up) I was told that they are working on a new plan to sell dollar coins for circulation. Most interestingly, the rep also told me that banks will no longer be able to get the coins. We will only be able to buy them from the Mint. I don't know if she was referring only to unmixed, all golden dollars or all dollar coins.

I guess we have to wait and see but I don't have a good feeling about this whole thing. Leave it up to the government to solve a simple problem the wrong way.

David

 

[MEP001]

Thought some of you might find this interesting. Yesterday I was informed that BB&T would no longer order or stock the $1 coins.

Most interestingly, the rep also told me that banks will no longer be able to get the coins.

I'm hoping Micah sees this thread before he quits his bank for something out of their control.

 

[Earl Weiss]

.

Even the phone "simple trigger less hardware" approach is not as simple as it appears at first glance. Again like I wrote to Earl above "Good Luck" (multiple reasons) when there is too much "just electronic". See below link:

http://www.idtheftcenter.org/

What has been holding up the smart wallet is the chip encryption apparently now solved with the near field comunication system in place.

Security would be further enhanced if you need a PIN to activate it on your phone and the PIN is only active for a limited time. That way if you lose the phone or it's stolen it's useless without the PIN.

I think this is going to be a big thing and if I could figure out the big players I would buy their stock now. One of the biggest is the clearing house for all the info and KKR took them private a while ago, but now KKR has gone public Hmmmmmm.....