Minus 10 degrees next week. What do you do?

[mjwalsh]

Cheap insurance. I installed this yesterday in the ER....It will be running for the next few days just in case there is a power outage and I don't know it. It runs even if the power is out....Mr Heater 10,000 btu....It was easy to tap into the supply to the floor heat boiler.../QUOTE]

2Biz, that really is cheap insurance. I saw them on EBay. We use the same type heater, set it on low when it’s cold and the equipment room stays nice and warm. No problems with fumes or carbon monoxide. We installed these heaters after we lost power for a week, luckily in that case nothing froze.

Randy,

I am glad those Mr. Heaters are working out well for you. Just thinking out loud ... it seems like in some very sealed equipment rooms there could be an oxygen depletion consideration at some point.

Mike

 

[2Biz]

2Biz,

Thanks for giving me a chance to clarify. The Gerand Metering Valve comment was unrelated to the Mr Heater ... so that is probably where the temporary confusion is. It is just that it appeared to me that you went through a process of tweaking flows of some of your ball valves. I assumed that by observing that some of your ball valves were more closed or more open judging ... by the levers on the ball valves. I just commented based on our need to balance flows accurately ... the Gerands with the ability to verify flows more precisely has been helpful. I am not saying for sure that it applies to your system but just wanted to share the good experience we have had with Gerand Ball Valves vs ordinary ball valves when it comes to balancing & verifying flows. I hope this at least makes sense as to where I was coming from in posting in the manner that I did.

As far as the exhaust considerations of at least most ventless heaters ... it might not be relevant to your situation. In our situation ... we have to be very careful not to have any exhaust seep in to other areas of the rest of the adjoining areas of our facility. I remember visiting with Kate Car when she was Editor from Professional Car Washing on the phone once about carbon monoxide ... but that was a quite a bit different ... it was in one of our isolated separated car wash bays & occurred because of a driver leaving his vehicle on while he was washing & was rendered unconscious (but was rescued by an alert person waiting in line at the car wash). A car wash owner without doors on both the entrance & exit probably would have more difficulty relating. The guy needed to be emergency airlifted to a Minneapolis-St.Paul Medical Center ... so it was not trivial.

Mike Walsh King Koin North Dakota

Mike,

Thanks for your response and concern....But I think you misinterpreted my photos. There is only two ball valves on the gas piping to the floor heater and Mr Heater. You can't see the 1" ball valve on the main supply. The other ball valve is on the Horizontal Black Iron pipe that goes to the Mr Heater. Its a 3/8" ball valve. They both are in the full on position. I don't know of a single application where you would throttle ball valves to any NG appliance. They only use what is needed. The other various ball valves you see in the picture is the floor heat zone valves and service valves on the boiler. They are not gas valves....

Also, the Mr Heater has an ODS (Oxygen Depletion Sensor). It will shut down if Oxygen ever reaches a dangerously low level. I think comparing Carbon Monoxide dangers with these types of heaters with someone leaving a car running in a closed bay is totally different. I have one of these in my family room at home that we use almost daily when temps are really cold. I have an electronic oxygen sensor and it has never registered any CO2 PPM (Parts Per Million) on the sensor... So I think it would be very safe to use in an equipment Room. Unless an inspector would frown on there being methanol in the same room with an open flame....

BTW...Here is the heater I bought....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/30102825624...NX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_308wt_1105

 

[2Biz]

Overkill???? I put the cones up and sealed up the pits in each bay....

 

[Waxman]

we open the touchfree between 10-15 F. we have doors that cycle up and down with the wash. our ss bays have doors we roll down and the weep is on. our ss bays never close.

 

[mjwalsh]

Mike,

Thanks for your response and concern....But I think you misinterpreted my photos. The other various ball valves you see in the picture is the floor heat zone valves and service valves on the boiler. They are not gas valves....

Also, the Mr Heater has an ODS (Oxygen Depletion Sensor). It will shut down if Oxygen ever reaches a dangerously low level. I think comparing Carbon Monoxide dangers with these types of heaters with someone leaving a car running in a closed bay is totally different. I have one of these in my family room at home that we use almost daily when temps are really cold. I have an electronic oxygen sensor and it has never registered any CO2 PPM (Parts Per Million) on the sensor... So I think it would be very safe to use in an equipment Room. Unless an inspector would frown on there being methanol in the same room with an open flame....

BTW...Here is the heater I bought....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/30102825624...NX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_308wt_1105

2Biz,

All good information & I trust that their sensors are fail safe & exhaust no byproducts of combustion to be concerned about. The valves I were referring to ... definitely were not the gas valves. Gas valves normally have regulators after the valve so there would not be a need to balance those ball valves. LOL ... if your valves would have had some great big specific labels (numbers or whatever) on them ... then we would have both referred to with more specificity & been looking at those valves that are shown throttled. I was merely saying that there is another alternative ball valve called a Gerand that would be another option. I am not saying in your case the ability to know the precise flows based on readings of the ports of the Gerands would be necessary. You were focused mainly on the gas piping & I was looking at your other piping. Me referring to the group of valves with the handles in various partially closed or open positions apparently was not enough.

MIke

 

[2Biz]

Yes, I thought you were referring to the gas valves...I'm sure the gauge and valves you mentioned are great for getting more precise, but I only have 4 bays and it was too easy to let the system run and check surface temps with an infrared temp sensor. Then adjust from there. The valve fully open is for the bay furthest from the ER. It has the most head pressure to overcome...Then I graduated the rest of the valves from there. All my bays range from 35°-40°surface temp. So I think I have them set pretty close. Thanks for the heads up on the valves though. It was a misunderstanding on my part...

 

[sparkey]

I use 2 of them heaters in my pump room. Its the only heat I have in Ohio. Work great.

 

[mjwalsh]

Why am I thinking our local codes will not permit this?

Earl,

I am not sure ... but it could be some localities possibly have some restrictions on flexible gas lines. Also, I had an electrician who told me about how fussy the plant work that he did a lot of was ... when it came to sealed explosion proof this & that.

From experience, I know that some specific sensors & devices are required to be safety certified ... including PLCs etc.

Mike

 

[mmurra]

I thought this thread was about closing the wash in extreme weather. We have a protocol to close when the temp drops to around -0- for 24 hrs or longer. We are a 6 + 2 WAUW in Michigan. We closed Sunday to Wed. (at least). Mark

 

[Earl Weiss]

I am waiting for Thursday to tackle the freeze ups. May hit 32 by then. Currently -0-

 

[cleaning up mud]

It only got to 24 degrees in Texas! But boy did things freeze up, we close below 28 degrees. I don't know how you guys make it up north.

 

[dogwasher]

This weather is out of control. We had a few customers use the SS a few days back when it was 10 below...the water froze before it hit the car. Now it rained all afternoon today and washed the salt off the cars.

 

[Ric]

This weather is out of control. We had a few customers use the SS a few days back when it was 10 below...the water froze before it hit the car. Now it rained all afternoon today and washed the salt off the cars.

Same here...we must be in the same part of the country.

 

[cdreed06]

Well we made it to the other side. We were only closed completely for 2 days. We spent those 2 days holed up watching tv and the cameras and only noticed one customer who pulled in then left because we were closed. We got the rain yesterday too but the roads are still filthy so hoping for a good few days.

 

[Robert2181]

It's nice to see a January thaw. We had -16 temps, -35 wind chill and 14" of snow. Today rain and 43 degree temps. A 60 degree temp change. The anti-freeze purge system worked great for the wands and foam brush. its suppose to stay warm and partly sunny for a few days. Lets hope for a couple of good wash days.