3 year old cat 530 pump problems, have they lost it

[cmawash]

we have some cat 530 pumps that after 3 years it appears the dreaded Head wash problems have struck all these pumps. seals show water leakage on high pressure seals, brass seal retainers show erosion, head assembly show porus areas resulting in water bypass damage, replacing seals pump can not go over a 1000 psi, installed a new head and pump runs as advertised, cant afford to keep replacing expensive parts,


What do you guys recommend for replacement, a pump with a quality head assembly and reasonable maintance costs

 

[Randy]

Send the pump head in and have it machined and resleeved. There are number of companies that do head repair. Your wasting your time and money putting in new seals into washed out head.

 

[Erik]

Good day,

In pumps that we have seen washout within a short amount of time, it is usually related to water quality, chemicals, system setup, lack of maintenance or high amount of run time, etc.

If you can contact us direct with any system information for us to review, including any pictures of seals and components that would also help. We would be happy to help you determine what may be going on.

Thanks

Erik - Cat Pumps Technical Support

 

[MEP001]

I've noticed over the (many) years that plumbing has a lot to do with washout, mainly if the center piston or valve areas have washed out first. A lot of washes are plumbed where the water flow has to suddenly change direction when the trigger is pulled and released, so it cavitates for an instant each time. Cat says to have inlet on one side of the pump and outlet on the other with regulator bypass returning to the inlet plumbing (NOT to the port below the outlet).

 

[cmawash]

we use constant bypass with return to inlet, Which company does head repair,

looking at arimitsu for their seal is different from cat, also Cats response is " we don't have a head wash out problem" you have bad water, we use cat 623 in the same use and have no problems with the same set up and we experience a 5 year overhaul cycle for the pump, they are more labor intensive to over haul but their built like a tank and run for ever.

 

[MEP001]

we use constant bypass with return to inlet

What does "constant bypass" mean?

Which company does head repair

http://www.dynajet.com/

Cats response is " we don't have a head wash out problem"

They don't have a "problem," it will happen to any brass or bronze head pump. 623 doesn't wash out because the seals are seating against stainless steel. 530 is a better pump than a 623.

 

[Randy]

What pressure are you running your Cat 530 pumps at and what size nozzles are you using? It might be overkill using a Cat 530 pump. All we use is a Cat 310, we've got some that are 30 years old. I can't recall the last time I replaced seals, I've never had ahead wash out.

 

[OurTown]

530 is a better pump than a 623

Why do you think that? I would like to know what to replace our 623s with if they ever croak. When I look at the price of parts to completely go through a 623 I start thinking of buying a new different model pump. I never thought of looking at the 530 because it does seem overkill.

 

[Greg Pack]

looking at arimitsu for their seal is different from cat, also Cats response is " we don't have a head wash out problem" you have bad water, we use cat 623 in the same use and have no problems with the same set up and we experience a 5 year overhaul cycle for the pump, they are more labor intensive to over haul but their built like a tank and run for ever.

My cat 5CP heads lasted 16 years before developing some head erosion. I'm inclined to think that it is something to the problem other than poor design or inferior materials. Arimitsu pumps wash out too; I don't know if they last longer or not. I'm sure IB can chime in.

 

[cmawash]

nozzles used 2505, by pass unloader, looking at cat head design for the plunger pump, it has a brass sealing area, a simple machine job stainless head or stainless sleeve seems it would hold up better, pistons pumps such as 623 are more expensive to over haul but 5 years in H.D. use is nothing to complain about,and it does take about 30 minutes to over haul
these 530 seen cheaply made, bottom end is good but head/ seal wear makes these pumps not cost effective.buying a new head every 6 months is not the way to go

 

[Greg Pack]

Good day,

In pumps that we have seen washout within a short amount of time, it is usually related to water quality, chemicals, system setup, lack of maintenance or high amount of run time, etc.

If you can contact us direct with any system information for us to review, including any pictures of seals and components that would also help. We would be happy to help you determine what may be going on.

Thanks

Erik - Cat Pumps Technical Support

Welcome Erik, and thanks for joining us here!

 

[cmawash]

were are at 1100 to 1200 psi at pump, try not to over pump but now pumps only pressure to 800 if head is not replaced, 623 pumps never have that problem, over past 30 years we have had just 2 623 heads go bad because head became out of round,went bad and one rod/main bearing not a bad track record for 35 pumps in service

 

[MEP001]

nozzles used 2505, by pass unloader, looking at cat head design for the plunger pump, it has a brass sealing area, a simple machine job stainless head or stainless sleeve seems it would hold up better, pistons pumps such as 623 are more expensive to over haul but 5 years in H.D. use is nothing to complain about,and it does take about 30 minutes to over haul
these 530 seen cheaply made, bottom end is good but head/ seal wear makes these pumps not cost effective.buying a new head every 6 months is not the way to go

You've already made up your mind that the Cat 530 is junk, so there doesn't seem to be any point of further discussing what might have led to early failure.

Are you using weep guns? You should be using a balanced pressure regulator, not an unloader.

 

[MEP001]

Why do you think that? I would like to know what to replace our 623s with if they ever croak. When I look at the price of parts to completely go through a 623 I start thinking of buying a new different model pump. I never thought of looking at the 530 because it does seem overkill.

Don't waste your money on kits when rebuilding the 623. You'll need two at about $100 each with some parts being redundant between them and a lot of those being unnecessary for a rebuild, and that won't even cover everything. I've got a basic parts list that will rebuild one for around $50 I'll try to find and post here.

 

[cmawash]

their was a question if a balanced unloader was used, the unloader is a flow sensitive by pass ( Cat factory recommended) which eliminates pressure spikes, not recommended for weep guns , unloader is returned to system inlet which is under gravity fed. about 2-4 lbs. head pressure. this reduces any back pressure to the pump

the exact same system was used to feed 623 piston pumps, no head problems, when used on a plunger type pump, head was out occurred. Easy to see where the design problem can occur. plunger type pump are cheaper to make but when compared to a piston ,not as durable.

 

[OurTown]

Don't waste your money on kits when rebuilding the 623. You'll need two at about $100 each with some parts being redundant between them and a lot of those being unnecessary for a rebuild, and that won't even cover everything. I've got a basic parts list that will rebuild one for around $50 I'll try to find and post here.

That would be great. Would it be the same parts for a 1010? We have a few of those too.

 

[MEP001]

Would it be the same parts for a 1010? We have a few of those too.

They share a lot of parts, but they won't all be the same. If I can find my 623 list I'll do one for the 1010 too.

 

[MEP001]

Easy to see where the design problem can occur. plunger type pump are cheaper to make but when compared to a piston ,not as durable.

I'm sure it's not a "design problem" or they wouldn't still be making the pump after more than 40 years.

Can you post a picture of the plumbing setup?

As I mentioned earlier, the 623 can't suffer from head washout the way a plunger pump can because wherever cavitation can occur the parts are stainless steel. Also there's only one inlet so there's no chance of plumbing it in a way that the water flow through the pump can change direction.

 

[I.B. Washincars]

My cat 5CP heads lasted 16 years before developing some head erosion. I'm inclined to think that it is something to the problem other than poor design or inferior materials. Arimitsu pumps wash out too; I don't know if they last longer or not. I'm sure IB can chime in.

I think there are too many variables to say which pump will last longer before it washes out. I've had many Cats wash out over the years, but I've also had some of my Arimitsu pumps wash out too. I take the blame for pretty much all of them. Most of my bays are cleaned up by attendants. By the time they tell me a bay is pulsating it's much too late. I'm not much better. When I feel one with a little pulsation, I have good intentions to pull it apart and put seals in. In reality, I let it go too long and it washes out anyway.

On a side note, I have determined that 10 years is the cut-off for not checking or changing the oil. I had a 516 Arimitsu seize on the Friday of July 4th weekend. When I popped out the oil fill cap I thought we had just gotten a new pope. The pump was stuck and would not rotate by hand. I had a gallon jug with about 2" of air compressor oil sitting nearby. I dumped that in there and stuck a crow bar through the pulley spokes and broke it loose. I got it rotating pretty good and decided to put the belt back on and see if it would make it through the weekend. Well, it's Nov. 1st and it's still going, even with that compressor oil still in it. Oh, that was July 4th of "2015" that this happened, not this year.

So boys and girls, let this be a lesson to you. Oil must be checked every nine years.

 

[pgrzes]

I think there are too many variables to say which pump will last longer before it washes out. I've had many Cats wash out over the years, but I've also had some of my Arimitsu pumps wash out too. I take the blame for pretty much all of them. Most of my bays are cleaned up by attendants. By the time they tell me a bay is pulsating it's much too late. I'm not much better. When I feel one with a little pulsation, I have good intentions to pull it apart and put seals in. In reality, I let it go too long and it washes out anyway.

On a side note, I have determined that 10 years is the cut-off for not checking or changing the oil. I had a 516 Arimitsu seize on the Friday of July 4th weekend. When I popped out the oil fill cap I thought we had just gotten a new pope. The pump was stuck and would not rotate by hand. I had a gallon jug with about 2" of air compressor oil sitting nearby. I dumped that in there and stuck a crow bar through the pulley spokes and broke it loose. I got it rotating pretty good and decided to put the belt back on and see if it would make it through the weekend. Well, it's Nov. 1st and it's still going, even with that compressor oil still in it. Oh, that was July 4th of "2015" that this happened, not this year.

So boys and girls, let this be a lesson to you. Oil must be checked every nine years.

Ok now, I dont care who you are but that is funny stuff!!