Are we naive or what?

[Washmechanic]

I agree with Bill.

I do not like any muslims I see in my area-- period. Not simply because they are muslim, but because of their actions and demeaner. If I see they own a business, I avoid it. The only thing I would like to do for them is give them a one way ticket out of the U.S.

Anyone that thinks that mosque is a good idea--regardless of reason.....well, I'll say a good Christian prayer for you.

I personally fear for the future of this country. I have lived in a muslim country for a few years and the first thing that I saw and was told was that they didn't respet America because we were weak and soft. They disliked the Europeans a lot, but they didn't give them any trouble, because they had been colonized by France, and knew that the Europeans would not tolerate it.
Secondly they respected or feared Might or strength. It's barbaric, but it's reality. You're trying to work twenty first century logic with a ninth century mentality. Stop and think and compare the freedoms or lack their of in todays Western countries and the Muslim countries. Religious rights, property rights, voting rights, womens rights they are radically different, and they have no intention of changing.
If the intention of the Muslims for insisting on the ground zero location is to build a center to foster a better understanding and relation between the Muslim community and the US citizenery, it would build a memorial to the lives lost on 911, not a monument to themselves. As has been said, there are hundreds of mosques through out the US, and suposedly 60 to 100 in New York alone, one already several blocks from the propsed sight. Why then the absolute insistance on this 911 site, with this name Cordoba, and a supposed completion date of 9,11 2011. ??

 

[mac]

Washmechanic, thank you for the first hand report of what actually goes on over there. I am guessing that a lot of the people who think it's fine to build the cordoba mosque are the same ones who literally hate the christians in this country They might be thinking this is a good way to irritate them, when in fact the strict muslims are slowly taking the place over. I've talked to people who live in England and it is not the same counrty anymore. The muslims in France are burning christian churches and we don't hear a peep from the media for fear of offending them.

 

[rph9168]

We have absolutely taken political correctness way to far in this instance. Who cares who is offended if the mosque isn't built there? If they had any sensitivities they wouldn't have tried to build it there in the first place.

This weekend Beck held a rally in DC. The media reports listed the crowd as mostly white. Al Sharpton held a rally and march at the same time. Never was it reported that it was attended by "mostly blacks". We will never lose racist undertones in our society as long as we continue to worry about offending other races or religions by qualifying how many "whites" are involved. As long as we continue to classify in these terms the media is fostering divisions instead of just reporting the facts.

 

[pitzerwm]

I personally have not been paying a lot of attention to events, and I'm guessing most of us are not either, since its not near us, but there is no doubt that we are being taken over by people that have an agenda and we trying to "do the right thing" are going to wake up one day and find ourselves totally screwed.

http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2010/08/29/flight-93-memorial-mosque/

 

[ted mcmeekin]

You are right rph. My wife,daughter, and 2 of 8 grand daughters attended the Lincoln Memorial event. Honest people wanting our country back and wanting to honor our military.. No crowd control problems and no trash just like the Tea Party event last year. Just lots of goose-bumps on people committed to make a difference. Take a look at some shots from above--this was not a club meeting--it is a movement.

Ted

 

[JJJakubowski]

Man oh man, I really, REALLY did not want to step into a religious discussion. I'm not gonna say, "the devil made me do it" ... but I'm tempted. The thing is, after checking out that video ("Myth of Religion", which Leo found to be sooo illuminating and recommended), well, dammit, I was compelled to say something!

Anyhoo, it seems that Leo is a True Man of Faith --- an ardent Believer and a Fundamentalist. "Whaaaa?!!" you say, "that guy wants to 'outlaw all religions' ". And I say, "oh yeah". You see, it's fairly obvious he has made a religion of his anti-religion bias --- as witnessed by his Blind Faith in any and all attacks on the existence of God.

I say "any and all", cuz anyone who accepts that pant-load video as, shall we say, "gospel" is mindlessly clinging to his dogma of disbelief. You need not have majored in Comparative World Religions (as I did for awhile in college) to recognize that "Myth of Religion" is relentlessly and ridiculously riddled with error. Among the online comments, there is even one from an atheist who rightly disparages that video for being so lame! For cripes sake, you can find a ton more scholarly integrity in
Monty Python's satirical lampooning of religion in their wacky movie "Life of Brian" or off-the-wall TV skit "The Spanish Inquisition".

The "Myth" video proves nothing ... other than a man disbelieves what he wants to disbelieve.

See you in church.

JJJ/SSCWN

 

[mac]

Why is it that so many of the people clamoring for religious tolerance now, seem to be the same ones demanding that the manger scene be removed from the county courthouse lawn, the prayer before football games done away with, the pledge of alligence stopped being recited, and In God we Trst removed from our currency? I'm just trying to be consistent here.

 

[pitzerwm]

IMO this has nothing to do with religion, but rather an invasion by people that want to destroy our way of life. There is plenty of evidence in the middle east and Europe to verify that it has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with taking us back to the 14th century.

Whenever, I needed to fight city hall, I would take their laws and beat the crap out of them with them, because they were all flawed.

 

[Indiana Wash]

We have absolutely taken political correctness way to far in this instance. Who cares who is offended if the mosque isn't built there? If they had any sensitivities they wouldn't have tried to build it there in the first place.

This weekend Beck held a rally in DC. The media reports listed the crowd as mostly white. Al Sharpton held a rally and march at the same time. Never was it reported that it was attended by "mostly blacks". We will never lose racist undertones in our society as long as we continue to worry about offending other races or religions by qualifying how many "whites" are involved. As long as we continue to classify in these terms the media is fostering divisions instead of just reporting the facts.

I am not concerned about offending anyone. I am concerned about the government taking away my constitutional rights because a few zealots believe it should. In this case, the zealots are suggesting that the government should take away the rights of the State of New York and the rights of people wishing to worship in New York. In the next case, they may decide that we should love our neighbor and that guns should be outlawed. That is why we have a constitution. To stop the zealots from attempting to enforce their view of a new country order on everyone.

I cannot believe that a bunch of business owners would suggest that the government expand its regulation. With expanded regulation comes expanded enforcement and taxation to pay for all the new laws. All I hear out of people in this thread is EXPAND GOVERNMENT REGULATION - INCREASE TAXES - BIGGER GOVERNMENT IS BETTER GOVERNMENT - MORE ZONING - MORE PROPERTY RESTRICTIONS. Seems odd to me.

 

[rph9168]

I am not concerned about offending anyone. I am concerned about the government taking away my constitutional rights because a few zealots believe it should. In this case, the zealots are suggesting that the government should take away the rights of the State of New York and the rights of people wishing to worship in New York. In the next case, they may decide that we should love our neighbor and that guns should be outlawed. That is why we have a constitution. To stop the zealots from attempting to enforce their view of a new country order on everyone.

I cannot believe that a bunch of business owners would suggest that the government expand its regulation. With expanded regulation comes expanded enforcement and taxation to pay for all the new laws. All I hear out of people in this thread is EXPAND GOVERNMENT REGULATION - INCREASE TAXES - BIGGER GOVERNMENT IS BETTER GOVERNMENT - MORE ZONING - MORE PROPERTY RESTRICTIONS. Seems odd to me.

You miss the whole point. It is not the government but the PEOPLE who do not want this mosque built here. Hell, if it were up to the governement they could build a mosque on the White House lawn.

 

[Indiana Wash]

You miss the whole point. It is not the government but the PEOPLE who do not want this mosque built here. Hell, if it were up to the governement they could build a mosque on the White House lawn.

The people have asked the government to get involved. I could have sworn it was people saying that someone should stop a mosque from being built there. That is asking for government involvement.

 

[pitzerwm]

Another thing that you are missing Indiana is that the Patriot Act has already suddenly removed some of our constitutional rights, read it, it will scare the hell out of you. there is another bill going through right now that gives the president more dictatorial powers. When the Supreme Court won't even ask him to prove that he was born in the US, don't expect them to protect some silly right like owning a gun.

In the Health bill, there is this little paragraph, that says any transaction over $600 requires a 1099Misc. All Gold and Silver purchases are now taxed and recorded. Duh? You don't realize that we have not only started sliding down a slippery slope, we have fallen off the cliff.

Just to farther scare you, read what the TSA people can do to you at the airport, and you have NO recourse. If you are lucky enough to get free, you have no rights to recover anything. "Sorry, you missed your plane, your luggage is missing, oh, well. Have a nice day". I was on a plane when 6 people were yanked off the plane just before take off. Only one was a bit of a moron, and they took all of them off.

Look what just happened in the Netherlands, they yanked a guy off the plane and detained him for hours, because he was sitting next to the person that made them nervous. In the end they released both of them, with no charges, "sorry".

I would agree with you if it were "just a couple of Zealots", its a lot uglier than that.

 

[ted mcmeekin]

Good things are about to happen!!!--it is an exciting time--fasten your seat belts.

Ted

 

[rph9168]

The people have asked the government to get involved. I could have sworn it was people saying that someone should stop a mosque from being built there. That is asking for government involvement.

Maybe they should built it across the street from your wash.

 

[JJJakubowski]

This is a disturbing, enlightening sidebar to this thread.

Here's a lecture given by a respected Kuwaiti professor. He seems like such an amiable, gentle, scholarly, and good humored guy ... until you read the translation of his little pep talk.

http://vodpod.com/watch/1445899-alarming-video-every-american-should-watch

If you think this lecture is directed to "fringe" Islamists, think again. You'll note that the audience repeatedly expresses its approval of what is being said. And the audience is not young, wild eyed, scarf hidden, cave dwelling, AK wielding terrorists types. No, they are seemingly middle to upper class, mature, civilized, educated gentlemen who are giddy and gleeful at the thought of 100' s of thousands of Americans being killed.

There have been a number of credible surveys (for example, Pew Research) done regarding Muslim sympathy and support of jihad terrorism. The percentage of those members of this "religion of peace" who tacitly or overtly support the slaughter of infidels is shocking --- depending on the survey, something like 20-40% and more (100's of millions!) support terrorism to achieve a global Islamic state.

One of the telling ironies in this lecture is the fact that it is being delivered by one of our "friends" . That is, a notable citizen of Kuwait --- the "moderate", modern and wealthy country that the USA liberated after it was invaded by Saddam Hussein. With friends like that, who needs terrorists?!!

JJJ/SSCWN

 

[pitzerwm]

Compliments to Mike V

A German's View on Islam

A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II, owned a number of large industries and estates. When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism. 'Very few people were true Nazis,' he said, 'but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come. My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.'

We have been told again and again by 'experts' and 'talking heads' that Islam is the religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the spectre of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.

The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honour-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously continue the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers.

The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the 'silent majority,' is cowed and extraneous.

 

[pitzerwm]

Continued:

Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China 's huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people.

The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet.

And who can forget Rwanda , which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were 'peace loving'?

History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason, we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points:

Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence.

Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because like my friend from Germany , they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.

Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late. As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts--the fanatics who threaten our way of life.

Please think about it, and send this on.

Emanuel Tanay, M.D. 2980 Provincial St. Ann Arbor , MI 48104 734-997-0256

 

[Washmee]

The real problem in this country is that our current government and its supporters think that any one who opposes these "Peaceful Muslims" are the real terrorists. Look at how the Mainstream Media is trying to protray the Tea party supporters.

 

[rph9168]

A good example happened this morning in our local news. They spent almost two minutes on Obama's speech yesterday in Milwaukee. After that they quoted one sentence that McCain said Obama's message is all wrong. From the coverage they gave this Administration during the oil spill you would have thought that Obama and his people were on the beach with shovels and bags cleaning up the mess. In general the local news media gives Obama tremendous positive coverage while very little to anyone with opposing opinions. They treat the Tea Party as bunch of buffoons. There was a local rally by the Tea Party at the state capital recently. There was more coverage on how good Obama's hook shot was than of the rally and what little coverage they had was very negative with hints of racism.

I have a feeling that in spite of this and ignoring the will of the people is going to cost the Dems and other incumbents their jobs in the Fall.

 

[washnvac]

OK JJ, I watched 58 seconds of that and tuned it off. It made me want to shoot the towel right off that idiots head. Since I am a bad shot, it may take several clips to do it.

It is up to all of us to NOT support these folks in any way. Although they own many businesses in our Country, we must refuse patronizing them. As well, our friends, family and co-workers must do the same.